YouTube Channel: "Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal"
Video Title: "The Best of Lue Elizondo [Compilation]"

The Best of Lue Elizondo [Compilation]
458,032 views  Dec 22, 2023

The most astounding UFO revelations from Lue Elizondo.

From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYeVgeTOgbI

Transcript:

Intro
Imagine everything you've been taught, whether it's through Sunday school or what our political leaders have told us turned out to be not entirely accurate. The meaning what it means to be a human
being in our place in this universe. How much of our own history do we really know? We can go back
5,000 years pretty easily. 8,000 years, things start to get a little murky. Anything much beyond
that, we really have no clue about. There is documentation of these strange things in the sky
going back a long, long time. I don't think we're dealing with a new phenomenon. I think we may be dealing with a new recognition and perhaps, hopefully, at some point, a new understanding.
I think we've been faced with this phenomenon for quite some time. Lue Elizondo has been on the Theories of Everything podcast three times, each of which
has a link in the description. Almost every one of those appearances tends to be one of the highest rated videos of all of the Lue Elizondo appearances on different podcasts and different platforms
during that period. What you're about to see are the most viewed juicy clips from those sessions
in one compilation. If you'd like to watch any of these in full, the links are in the description as well as the pinned comment. This compilation is in preparation for a behemoth interview with Lue
in person, so if you have a question for him, leave it below. Think of this whole anthology as an early Christmas gift. My name is Curt Jaimungal and this podcast is Theories of Everything,
where we explore the topics of physics, mathematics, free will, consciousness, and AI, even God, primarily from an analytic, technical, academic perspective, but as well as starting two
years ago, I've embraced a more experiential approach and interviewed some guests along that framework. Subscribe if this sounds interesting to you and either way, enjoy this
Best of Lue Elizondo episode. If you could start over and pursue a different educational path
 Philosophy
with the hopes of understanding UAPs more fully, what degree would you choose? I would probably start with philosophy and why is that? Because philosophy is one of the few
areas that teaches you how to think and not what to think, right? In the topic of UAPs,
it's not a matter of what, it's how. How do we process a data? How does this apply to our species,
where we're going, where we're from, et cetera? There's very few academic pursuits that teach
somebody how to think. Most people, and I can tell you this from personal experience with my children, most schools teach kids what to think. And that's a problem because we've forgotten what
real teaching is about. I can instruct somebody on how to do something, but real teaching is
something different. A lot of the Eastern philosophies understood that. It's not teaching
somebody the specifics, it's teaching somebody how to find the data themselves. And I think I
would probably start with that, maybe do some reading on people who look at things maybe a
little bit differently, right? And are prescribing you what to think, but more importantly, again,
how to think. Would you consider yourself to be an idealist or a materialist? And if you are unsure what
 Lue's Worldview
those words mean? No, I know they are. Is there an option C?
Which would be what mix? Can it be both or neither? That's something I've been wondering. Is there a duality between those two? There's plenty of
dualities in math and physics where you think it's the option between two, but it turns out that
they're equivalent ways of describing a system. Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure it's either or. I'm not sure they're mutually exclusive. I think
I, my background was science. In science, I found my solace, which I enjoyed.
I grew up kind of an angry young kid, had some tough times as a kid, but science to me was,
it was unwavering. She was always there for me. She never lied to me. And so I get lost in science
and I do believe in the scientific method. It works. I mean, is it perfect? No,
but it's the best thing that we got right now that we know to test and apply theories.
But at the same time, there's something more you said about human consciousness. Can't prove it. There's no mathematical formula, no physical evidence to prove consciousness. And yet here
we are having a conversation. So I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I don't consider
myself a materialist or an idealist. Like I said, I make fun of the fact that I said,
I love humanity. It's humans I don't like. How is that possible? Because humanity is a
collective of all the humans and yet, but probably a little bit of both.
Probably a little bit. I think there's an indelible aspect to the human being that transcends
physicality. We have a body obviously, and we have a brain and our brain is inextricably tied
for metabolic processes to survive to the body. The heart has to pump blood to get blood to the brain. Otherwise the brain dies. And in the same respect, the brain is regulating all the autonomic
processes for the body. So breathing, which is automatic, thank God for most of us anyways,
and heartbeat and temperature and whatnot. So the brain is a biological organ that is
inextricably tied to the overall vehicle, which is the body, and that's organic as well.
But there's probably something more to the human being. There's probably something more that is
not necessarily physical because a computer has a processor. A computer has a body,
right? The laptop I'm talking to you on right now, and it's got a processor that's thinking, if you will, for the computer, but it's not a conscious living being. It's not a sentient being.
So the question is, what is that extra component, that extra ingredient that makes us human, that makes us a living, breathing, not only animal, but truly human,
what separates us from everything else on this planet? And that third ingredient can be described
potentially in cultures as the soul or the id or the chi, put your nom de jour you want on there.
But I think a lot of people agree that there's something different. Case in point, the notion
of love. You can't really describe it. It's hard to describe. You can't see it. You can't
touch it and taste it, but it's there. And it motivates a lot of people's actions. In fact,
love to some degree actually works against individual survival. And yet, a mother's instinct to throw herself in front of a train to save her child is almost reflexive.
There's something there that recognizes the value of human life, human dignity.
I could be in a car accident and lose use of my arms and my legs, but I'm still Lue Elizondo.
I could suffer a traumatic brain injury and have a severe TBI and be mentally impaired,
but I'm still Lue Elizondo. What makes Lue Elizondo Lue is something a little bit different,
something that you can't really put your finger on. And so back to this duality, materialist versus
idealist, I'm probably a little bit of both because I believe in science, but I also know
that there's limitations to science and there's limitations to human beings and there's limitations
to you and me and everybody else. And that's okay. And that there's aspects to being human
that are probably potentially more human than human to use an old cliche.
 Forbidden Truths
Is there another reason outside of national security that they don't want you to disclose what you may disclose or they're worried you may?
Yeah. I mean- What is their worry outside of that? There have been forbidden truths, we can call them, if you will. There've been forbidden truths
in the history of not just our country, but many countries. Truths that could upset a balance,
a balance that's been around for a long time. Let me give you case in point.
Let's say there were some people that were doing their job by running a UFO program in the past,
but because certain things happened, presidents were no longer briefed, people in Congress
were no longer briefed who should have been. And now they're running an operation that's
considered rogue, but it's still an important mission.
It turns out all of a sudden now, let's say hypothetically the cat's out of the bag,
what's going to happen to those people when the government realizes they were running operations for better or for worse without any oversight, without any legal oversight? Who's going to be
held accountable for that? The fact that they did not brief legally like they were supposed to.
Certain members of Congress and committees and oversight committees and the chain of command,
that's potentially criminal action. I've said this before. Let's say you have two
competing companies. You have aerospace company A and aerospace company B.
And aerospace company A for whatever reason gets a favor and some sort of really exotic
game-changing material is provided to that company to do an analysis. Meanwhile, company B,
who is competing fairly, doesn't get that material. Turns out company A now starts
getting a lot of contracts, defense contracts, and becomes a multi-billion dollar company.
While company B, who never had the advantage of having that material,
goes into bankruptcy. Hundreds of people lose their jobs and stockholders lose their investment.
Keeping in mind that both companies are supposed to be treated fairly and have fair competition
when it comes to US government contracts. Now what? Now what happens? Where's the liability?
And by the way, now these companies are doing good things for the United States,
but they got there because they had an unfair advantage, competitive advantage, potentially. Again, this is hypothetical, right? Where's the liability there? You're talking to trillions and
trillions of dollars worth of liability. And who made those decisions to do that? Who's going to
be held culpable for that? The Security Exchange Commission would not be very happy to know that
two publicly traded companies that were competing for a contract, one had an unfair advantage.
The other went bankrupt. That's a problem. That's a real problem. And so you're talking about big, big money interests. You're talking about
things that are going into that gray world that go beyond just government interest. You're talking about banking. You're talking about some of the biggest names on the planet that have a lot to
lose or a lot to gain in hindsight. So I think we always have to be careful that governments have
always had interesting ties to certain interests. And that's true of all governments. It's not just
the US. That's everybody. And we need to be mindful of that because you could be putting
some people in a very uncomfortable position. And I'm aware of that. And that's why I've been very delicate how I approach this topic. I'm not trying to beat anybody up. I'm not trying to expose
anybody and say, ah-ha-ha, gotcha, see there. I'm trying to have the conversation in a collaborative,
meaningful way where everybody wins. Nobody has to get burned. It's not a zero-sum game. I'm not-
Hypothetically, do they view it like that? There's a potential where everyone can win, or do they view it somewhat zero-sum? Well, I can't speak for them. I can't tell
you what they think. All I can tell you is what I think and my approach. And my approach is to say, look, guys, we're not trying to expose anybody. This is not a witch hunt. Despite what you may
see on social media where everybody wants their pound of flesh, that's not going to get us anywhere. We need to be adults about this. And we need to have a conversation that if you really
want the truth to come out, you better be willing to compromise. We're not going to sit there and
put people to be eaten by the lions just to satisfy someone's ego or beef that they might
have with somebody else. The truth is more important than that. This is not about, see,
I told you so, or being vindicated. This is about having a conversation that can affect all of
humanity. And we have to be willing to set aside some of that, if you will. And understandably so,
you've got lots and lots of decades worth of people covering this up. I know there's a lot
of animosity and resentment as a result of that by people saying, you've been lying to us for all this time. But we got to be willing to put that aside if we really want to move forward,
in my opinion. You're referring to animosity from the general public or animosity from some of these
wolves? No, no, general public who want their pound of flesh because people have been covering this topic up for too long, knowing that it's really been lying to the American people.
 History
Potentially, how long is too long? Potentially, is it centuries? Is it decades?
Well, there's information that goes way back. I live here in Wyoming and I live next to
members of the Crow Nation. And if you've ever had a chance to talk and really engage with
indigenous people, first of all, they're very, very private. Two, they have an incredibly rich
history. Their oral traditions and oral history doesn't go back a few hundred years. It goes
back millennia. In fact, when Europe was facing its dark ages and mankind almost went extinct in
the European continent and we were burning books, indigenous people over here were experiencing a
golden era. That wasn't the case over here. And the way they look at nature, the way they look at
this topic, UAP, is not like we look at it through Western eyes. In fact, they don't view it as a
threat at all. In fact, they don't view it even as paranormal. They view it as normal, as part of
nature, their natural environment, as real as the lakes and the sky and the trees on the mountains
are. And it's just accepted as part of the greater universe. And I think there's some beauty there.
They're not held hostage by their fears. In fact, they embrace it. And that goes to show that
You don't have to view this topic as an either or, it doesn't have to be viewed as a threat or as some sort of saving opportunity for our species.
It could just be a natural part of our existence. Again, do I subscribe to that?
I don't know, but I certainly think it's another way, another perspective that we should consider.
If that is the case, and they're right, then we've been dealing with this for millennia. I can tell you that having a chance to talk to some people in the Vatican, they describe
these flaming Roman shields in the sky that would follow them from battlefield to battlefield,
what they call the Eclipus, which is the shape of the Roman shield.
That's documented, that's there. In fact, I think if I'm not mistaken, I haven't read it from Jacques Vallée, but from my
understanding Jacques Vallée even wrote a little bit about that. But I've seen that evidence myself.
There is documentation of these strange things in the sky going back a long, long time. So I don't think it's necessarily modern.
Maybe our understanding is a little bit more advanced and maybe consider that modern, but
I don't think we're dealing with a new phenomenon. I think we may be dealing with a new recognition and perhaps hopefully at some point a new
understanding, but I don't think this is a new phenomenon to mankind. I think we've been faced with this phenomenon for quite some time.
You mentioned millennia, which is thousands of years. I'm wondering, potentially tens of thousands, potentially millions, or do you think it's
cut off around 9,000 or so? Well, that's hard to tell because we only as a species, Homo sapiens sapiens, have been
around roughly for 100,000 years, and we only really gotten into written language in the last 5,000, 6,000 years really.
And been gone from hunter-gatherers to more of an agrarian type society, organized society,
which is if you take 100,000 years and you compare the last 5,000 years, really only
the 5% of our entire time rummaging around on this planet has been in somewhat of a civilized
fashion. And then if you look at that to the context of it's been only in the last 1,000 years,
2,000 years, we understood the Archimedes steam engine, and really didn't even fully
appreciate it until the Industrial Revolution just a couple hundred years ago. So now you're talking at 0.2% of mankind's time on earth, we've been industrialized,
we've been civilized. So how much of our own history do we really know?
We can go back 5,000 years pretty easily, 8,000 years things start to get a little murky.
And anything much beyond that, we really have no clue about. And the question is, have we as a species been aware of this phenomenon much longer?
Well, let's look at what we do know. The general consensus is that the American population, let's say American, I mean United
States, I mean North America, South America, Central American population really began about 20,000 years ago during the land bridge when you had a migration coming over the land
bridge and settling this part of the planet. But in reality, it turns out now that a lot of scientists believe that there were many
migrations and many migrations before that primary migration 20,000 years ago.
In fact, there may have been multiple migrations going back perhaps even 100,000 years ago.
So is it possible that our society was aware of these things, maybe even interacted with
these things in a certain fashion? I'm sure it's possible. Absolutely, it's possible. I mean, most of our history we have no idea about.
It's like spending an entire day and having amnesia except for the last five minutes before you go to bed. Where the hell was I?
What was I doing? What did I eat? Who did I speak to? What did I say? What I'm wondering is what you're referencing is written history and I'm curious about archeological
evidence that you're aware of or that potentially exists. Interesting.
Yeah. So let me give you a real world example and I'm not going to either refute or defend it.
But again, I live here in Wyoming and there is a legend here called the Little People
of the Pyori Mountains. And for generations, the indigenous people have reported what appeared to be this fearsome
pygmy warrior tribe of humanoid type creatures that lived in the mountains. And for many, many, many years, it was completely considered a myth.
Folklore. Right. Yeah. Folklore. And it turns out that scientists began uncovering artifacts up in the mountains that to some
degree reinforced the notion that there was some sort of small hominoid type creature
living in the mountains. They found small tools, they found small bones that appeared to be coming from some human
like creature. Now, I don't know the details thoroughly, I've not had a chance to really, really explore
it or study it. But that part is true, that people are now beginning to look back and say, well, wait
a minute, is that possible? Because we're starting to find archeological evidence.
So it's interesting here, I can walk up into the Bighorn Mountains and they're pulling
out spearheads, spearheads that are 11,000 years old. Now think about that for a minute, 11,000 years old.
If that spearhead could talk, what people did it come from? What were they hunting? What did this place look like?
Environments change in a blink of an eye. Look at the Sahara Desert in 5,000 years. There was a lot of wildlife living in the Sahara region before it became a desert.
And that was in recent human history, by the way, we were inhabiting the planet when that happened. There are drawings on the side of rock walls that illustrate alligators, crocodiles, if
you will, and animals that live not just on the savanna, but in the wetlands, all cohabitating
there. So this earth is very dynamic. Every time we have a, for us, it seems like a long time, but every time we have an ice
age, every roughly 10,000, 15,000 years, the entire topography of earth changes.
The climate changes, animals change, people change.
 DNA
I think it's very possible that there is potentially some sort of archeological evidence.
The question is, would we recognize it if we saw it? And that's another big, big question we have to ask ourselves.
Let me ask you this as a scientist, Curt, if I said to you, Curt, you have a task.
You can make it out of whatever you want, any material you want. Your goal is to, in a million years, do you have to create something now that will last
a million years to prove you were here? What would you do? How would you do it?
Think about it. Go ahead. No, no, no, no. I love you, man, but we're going to have this mental exercise right now.
I think it's important. And by the way, it's not a trick question and I'm not playing gotcha. What would you give me?
Just some examples that you might throw out there to say, okay, I would make something out of this or out of that. There are some meta materials that seem to be harder than diamond.
So whatever's our hardest material, it would be made out of that. Also, just so you know, I don't classify myself as a scientist.
I'm more of a hobbyist, let's say. So that's what I would do. So you'd find some sort of hard material that would outlast just about anything else on
earth, right? Where would you put it? Right. Where would you put it? Orbit is one place.
Okay. And hopefully a non-retrograde orbit, right? So geosynchronous and hopefully nothing would perturb it in a million years, chances are
something would, but okay, hypothetically in orbit, good. Here on earth, it's really hard to make anything that lasts more than a few thousand years.
You can even make the pyramids and look at them now and say, wow, those things are 5,000 years old and they don't look so great.
And probably in another 5,000 years, they're not going to look good at all. And they might last eventually till a hill of, you might have a hill of sand in a hundred
thousand years, but that's going to be about it. And that's made out of rock, right? Mount Mushmore, same thing.
It's going to be gone in 10,000 years. You won't probably even recognize it, it'll be too worn.
Even mountains in millions of years become deserts, right? Time moves on.
Then you have the subduction zones of earth that eventually, if you wait long enough on the surface of the planet, it all gets recycled anyways.
It's all going to get sucked down into the mantle and get spit out the other end and as new land.
So nothing is indelible on this planet. It's constantly changing.
And to create something that can last the sands of time, so to speak, is a lot harder than one might think.
The few examples we have here on earth that are man-made, you can look at the pyramids,
you can look at things like Stonehenge, but that's a blink of an eye.
Those were just made a few thousand years ago and they're not going to be around for
a whole lot of time. That's just not the way earth is. So if we're trying to find some sort of marker, chances are you're not going to find it buried
in the earth unless it only happened maybe the last 5,000 years ago or so. Even some of the most dramatic examples of terraforming.
Let's look at, for example, the meteor impact crater in Arizona, happened 60,000 years ago.
That's already filling in. In another 100,000 years from now, you may not even know anything ever happened because
of the processes of earth and what this planet does. It's constantly erasing what's on the surface and it's constantly burying what lies beneath
deeper and deeper and deeper until eventually it gets recycled. So that's a hard question.
What would last long enough for us to go back and say, wow, this is an indicator of alien life on this planet 100,000 years ago.
What would you have to do to achieve that, to accomplish that?
It's a lot harder than one might think. And then again, would you recognize it? One might say, well, DNA, DNA is a perfect example.
If you wanted to do something that was enduring for humanity, that we could look back 100,000
years ago and say, yes, that was absolutely manipulated by an intelligent life form. Well, deoxyribonucleic acid may be one way to do it.
You can put coding and sequencing in there that will perpetuate over time and time and you'll still have some degradation over generations.
But in essence, you could do something that way. And basically it's a biological marker, right?
So we have to be careful when we say we look for evidence, because evidence isn't just necessarily a spearhead found in the Bighorn Mountains from 11,000 years ago.
It's not necessarily a pyramid sitting in the middle of a desert. It could be far more sophisticated than that.
You said put it in orbit, right? Well, what if we put that rather than orbit, we put it into the human body?
So anyways, I know it's a very long-winded way to answer that question.
Yeah. Let me ask a quick follow-up and then we'll get to super chat questions, audience questions and so on.
Are there places that we should be looking for evidence that you feel like we're not? So for example, I mentioned archeological investigation sites.
The reason I brought that up is some people say craft were found. Okay. But you're also saying there may be other markers, maybe possibly biologically, for
example. Near-earth celestial bodies like the moon where you don't have atmospheric friction,
you don't have the tectonic processes that we have here on earth that are constantly recycling.
Someone might want to put something on the moon. If you want to, reminiscent of what was it, 2001 space, 2001 space odyssey, right?
Where you have these monolithic markers. That's certainly one way to do it.
You could put something where you don't have those same processes occurring, where maybe
you might be able to extend your time twice as long for leaving some sort of archeological
evidence. The evidence could be right here, could be right in front of us, could be within genetic sequencing.
It could even be more obvious than that, the very fact that we're alive and we're on this planet is an example of some intelligent life somewhere making a decision that life needs
to exist on this planet. We need to be open to all of that. We really do. I think we need to cast a very wide net, and this is why we say all options have to be
on the table until they're not on the table, because you might be surprised. Something that's super, super intelligent probably isn't going to build a pyramid that's
only going to last 20,000 years. They're going to do something that's far more enduring, something that will really be, no
kidding, maybe a million years. I understand. All right.
This question comes from Terry Rueckert. So, I got to ask real quick, Curt, I don't mean to- Sure.
Forgive me, and I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this. What is a super chat? I hear it a lot. What's a super chat?
Well, a super chat is when someone pays $5, $50, $100 sometimes, most of these are five
to $10, you'll get your check. Don't even say that because people are going to believe it.
Curt, clear the record, man. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not getting paid a penny for this. I know.
I'm kidding. I'm kidding, everyone. Okay. And thank you so much for supporting. Thank you so much for supporting this podcast. I appreciate it a tremendous amount.
It's not easy to do this full time, and this is a place where I have almost no knowledge
in Lue, as you could probably tell by the sophomoric nature of my questions.
Curt, I don't think anybody does. You're not alone, brother. If I have all the answers, don't you think we'd be where we are today?
No, I've got more questions than answers, but that's okay. My fear is when people say they do have all the answers, those are the people that I don't
trust because I know they don't. I've been in this for a long time for the US government, and I damn sure don't have
all the answers, so don't worry about it. Lue, you mentioned at one point that the present is thick, for lack of a better word, cigarette
 Time Explained
burning as the analogy. For people who are interested in a more mathematical treatment of that, I spoke to someone named
Nicholas Gissen, who gave a formalism. To indicate that the present time is thick, that you can't pick out a particular point,
that as soon as you do, it's almost like honey. If you're interested in that, I'll put a link in the description. Yeah. We see that very practically in the world of quantum physics, and even the expression
or the description of an electron. Again, for your audience who's probably my age, remembers
in high school, you learned that an electron orbits the nucleus of an atom, but in reality,
that's not what's occurring. We now realize it's called an electron cloud for a reason, because of predictability. The fact that the electron can never be isolated in a fixed
position, you can't do it. In fact, some scientists now are speculating that it is because the
electron is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It is so small that it may literally
be zipping in and out through the very fabric of space-time. It's nonsensical to try to
predict the position of an electron, because there is no position. It's everywhere and
nowhere at the same time around the nucleus of an atom. That's some of the observations
we're beginning to see now. Let me add to that, that the past and the future are human semantic constructs. It is
always now. It always has been now from the universe's perspective. The past is not something
that's sitting next door to us. Another way people think of things, when we say that the
stars are very far away, the light took a very long time to travel to us, we're seeing the past. Again, that's a metaphor. We're not seeing the past, we're seeing now. Now
is those photons are here hitting your eyes, where at one point they were not. These are
arbitrary concepts a lot of times. We've applied a linear understanding to something that exists
on a much deeper spectrum, in a lot of ways, when we talk about going past, going future.
I think a lot of what Lue's talking about is that reality is anchored in now, and in the present, and in the entropic state that we exist in at this moment. There's so many
variables to that, and we're jumping to move. I think that's something we just have to keep
in mind. Yeah, I'll go even a step further, Curt, too, with piggybacking off of what Sean said. The
whole notion of here and now is almost nonsensical. Let me give an example. I asked you, Curt,
where are you right now? Let's do a little quick exercise for you and your audience. Where are you right now, Curt?
Let's say Toronto, Canada. Okay, where's Toronto? Where's Toronto? I don't know how to answer that.
Okay, well, where's Canada? Where's North America? I think I see where you're getting at. Yeah, right.
Right, and where's our solar system? Where's our Milky Way? There is no here, here. We invent
here because we have to live in an environment where we are used to boundaries and borders in
order for things to make sense. But in reality, in the big scale of things, in the scale of the universe, the notion of here and now is really nonsensical because that depends on where I am
relative to everything else. Here and now only exist. Go ahead, Sean, sorry.
It's like trying to pick out a specific electron from the electron cloud. Yeah, everything is moving so dynamically at all times that a location is not a concept either.
It's only a location in a certain regional area. And you have to have some kind of substrate to
measure that against. And we live in a universe that lacks a substrate. There's no SNAP2 grid
that we can say, we're now 14 parsecs northeast to local globular cluster north. What's that mean?
How would you navigate to that? That's something that really digs into my head. How would we
navigate to a point in the past? You have to figure out its location in space-time.
And we haven't found space-time yet to be a thing to measure in that way.
And in fact, if you look at the theory of inflation of the universe during the big
bang, early parts of the big bang, and even now as the expansion of the universe continues to get bigger and faster, scientists are now stating that space-time itself is being created. And that's
how you have this expansion of the universe occurring faster and faster and faster.
And that's when you look at that case in point, let me see if I can bring this to a little bit
easier to understand. The universe has been estimated to be almost not quite 14 billion
years old. And yet when you ask the scientists, how big is our visible universe from end to end,
they say it's about 94 billion light years across. Well, how can that be? Because that
means the universe has to be expanding faster than the speed of light. Well, not necessarily.
What's happening in theory is that actual space-time itself is expanding as well. Think of
probably the best way to explain it would be imagine water seeping up from the bottom of the
bathtub and filling up the bathtub. It's filling up from all sorts of little pores, water's coming out everywhere, not just out of the spigot, but everywhere it's starting to fill up the tub.
If that is the case, then again, the notion back to where we are in the universe is always changing.
In fact, when you say to yourself, and it's a little bit scary to do, but you say, I'll be here tomorrow. No, you won't. You will never be here again. And you can't,
it's impossible because the entire universe isn't static, it's moving. And the only way
to know where you are is only relative to other people and where they are. And by the way, they're just as lost as we are. And I don't mean that just figuratively, I mean that physically,
we are all scattered through the winds together. And the only way we can relate to each other is,
oh, you're kind of close to me. So I guess relative, you're six foot and I'm five foot,
nine. And we've gauged things relative to each other, but we really have no idea where we really
are or even when we are. And that's something to ponder perhaps. Do It Yourself Craft Q asks, what's his take on alien abduction experience?
 Alien Abduction
They're interesting. They're fascinating, but they're just that, they're an experience.
And with every person who talks about how these things may be here for peaceful purposes,
and just because they've never attacked us means that they're benevolent. There's just as many
people who are terrified and report the opposite experience. I've said this before for record,
look, if you take a member of my family against their will somewhere, that's kidnapping.
And God forbid, if you touch them, now that's assault. Both are criminal
offenses from my perspective. I don't care what your intent is, bottom line.
If abductions are happening, well, the award of abduction itself is a criminal act, right? It's kidnapping. It's not taking you on a date, it's abduction. If that indeed is happening.
The problem is it's very hard to quantify and qualify that aspect of the conversation,
because at the end of the day, you're just relying on eyewitness testimony. There's no gun camera footage. There's no radar data to suggest that. It's just someone's personal
experience. When you do that, you have to consider all sorts of stuff. You're now talking
about aspects that involve psychology, aspects that involve sociology, and aspects that involve
philosophy. We all interpret data differently as human beings. Processes occur differently in our
brains, biochemically even. It's very hard to do anything with that data from a military
perspective, from a DOD perspective, because eyewitness testimony is one thing, and even
that's tricky sometimes. But when you start talking about experiences, physical experiences
from people, and they vary so much in some cases, and some cases are similar,
there's not a whole lot I can do with that data. Although it's extremely interesting,
fascinating in fact, it was never really a core part of our research in ATIP. Again,
because scientifically, it's very hard to quantify and qualify. There's nobody else that can say,
yes, I saw this person. There's a few small anecdotal examples here and there where people say, yes, I saw the person disappear or something like that, but that doesn't help us. We need more
information or more data. I will tell you... No, actually, no, wait. Sorry.
Next time, next time. Yeah, next time. Yeah. It's interesting. Tom DeLonge, I recall was saying, one shouldn't do CE5. I'm going to get you to explain what CE5
 CE5
is. But anyway, one shouldn't do CE5. And when one does it, often orbs are associated with it.
And one thinks, oh, that's great because I'm inducing some contact. And Tom said,
be careful. One shouldn't do that lightly. So that to me implies that there's something
nefarious or potentially nefarious about these orbs. Well, I mean, look, I'd say the same thing. Don't mess around with electricity unless
you're a licensed electrician. Be careful because you can get zapped. That's true with anything. That's not just orbs. That's electricity. That's swimming pools. That's everything.
I can't speak for Tom. I don't know what Tom meant by that. But I can tell you that general
word of caution, I think, is appropriate for just about anything out there. If you don't know what
you're getting into, just be mindful. There are potentially things that go bump in the night.
And it's not all necessarily good or bad. It's not all sunflowers like your cup.
Well, anytime you go snorkeling, look, I'm an avid scuba diver. I've been scuba diving my
whole life. There's always a remote risk when you go scuba diving in some of these beautiful coral
reefs. You know what? There's a risk you're going to come up against a shark. Now, not all sharks are going to do anything. But if you're carrying a bag of fresh fish that you wound up spearing
and are now bleeding out of this bag and dead, chances are you may attract a lot more attention
than just a curious shark. You may be attracting a hungry shark. Now, you got to pay attention.
I think that's wise advice on just about everything that we do. I live here in Wyoming,
where a lot of people like to go spunking and adventuring into caves. But again, you have to
have the right equipment. Be careful when you go into a cave. Make sure you've got light. Make sure you've got gear that can get you in and out and rope and whatnot. What's going on at Skinwalker?
 Skinwalker Ranch
Did ATIP study that? And I know you don't like to espouse, but what do you think is going on there?
Sub-question. Let me say before I forget it. And then I wanted to know, is there a connection
between Bigfoot and UFOs? Because there seems to be a confluence of that at Skinwalker, at least.
So I work with colleagues that were focused on the OSAP and the Skinwalker phenomenon.
What I can say is that they are very convinced, and I think I am too, that there are things that
probably go bump in the night, that probably need further explanation. But that was not my
portfolio. And I don't want to speak to that because I simply don't know. That was done at a time with the tremendous efforts of Mr. Bigelow and the former director, OSAP director, and a lot
of folks from Bigelow Aerospace. And the data was very compelling. I'll say that. It was absolutely
compelling. And I think Mr. Brandon Fugel now and others have recognized the validity of some of
that data. But that's all I'm prepared to say about that. As far as Bigfoot, I'm going to
share something with you. And I hope this doesn't turn anybody off. It's probably going to turn me
on. I had the great honor and privilege of speaking with some people from the First Nations,
Saskatchewan, indigenous people of the Lakota and Dakota bands. These are individuals who are
fiercely proud, have an incredible heritage, and have nearly 10,000 years of oral tradition
in this continent. And they have an incredible connection to the land. And I was asked by
someone there, and I'm not going to say who it was, but a very senior individual who was associated
with the First Nations people. And he asked me, he said, I want to ask you a question, Lue. Have
you ever seen Sasquatch? I said, no, sir. He said, I'm going to ask you one more time. Are you sure
you've never seen Sasquatch? I said, sir, I've never seen Sasquatch. And he said, well, that's
good. Because from my people's perspective, Sasquatch is a spirit that protects our women
and children, and a spirit of the forest. And if you see a man see Sasquatch, it means your heart
is impure. And I wasn't prepared for that. I was like, holy smokes, I'm sure glad I haven't seen
Sasquatch. Interesting. But yeah, that was their take. Very, very interesting. But who among us
have pure hearts? Well, that's a whole other question, right? I don't think any of us really
do have pure hearts. But the fact that they see it that way, I found very, very interesting.
It's a very unique perspective. And I think if anybody has a right to have a narrative on
Sasquatch, it's certainly Indigenous people. So I found that, again, I can't tell you whether
or not that's true. I can just tell you what was told to me. But, you know, there you have it.
As for Skinwalker in general, you just think your statement is, there is something that's going bump in the night, or you think there is. Nothing more can be said about that. I'm
hugely interested in Skinwalker. You know, Curren, at some point...
More is to be revealed? Yeah, you know, I don't want to go down any rabbit holes prematurely.
You know, this is a very complex universe we live in.
And it's a system. And we're learning more and more about the reality of life.
The transition of what birth means and the transition of what death means. And, you know, human consciousness and human spirit, what not.
And, you know, suffice it to say, we probably really don't have a very good handle right now on understanding what lies beyond our five senses.
I've said this before, we have five fundamental senses for which we judge our environment. And if you can't touch it, taste it, hear it, smell it, or feel it, whatever, it doesn't exist.
And yet the reality is 99.9% of the universe lies well beyond our ability to sense these things.
We have Wi-Fi signals coursing through your body every moment of every day. We have cosmic radiation coming from the cosmos. We've got neutrinos that are flooding your body from the sun.
We've got cellular signals, radar signatures that are coming from the local airport. And all these are real. And I tell people, if you want to know the reality of the universe, look at a night sky one night and look how pretty it is.
Now take a radio telescope and look at that same night sky. Look at it through infrared. Look at it through ultraviolet.
And you're going to see things you've never seen before. And so by definition, 99% of our noble universe, we can't even perceive.
And then when you look at the scale of the universe, and I've said this before, if you look at, you know, I was corrected recently that the visible galaxy, the visible part,
the visible known universe is about 90-some billion light years across. Even though it's only been around for 13.7 billion light years, we think that the actual, the seeable universe right now around us is about 97 billion light years.
And as big as that is in terms of us being this little tiny minute thing stuck in the middle of it, there is equally that amount of space, relative space inside every one of us.
If you look at an atom, which is one times 10 to the minus 26 inside the whole, compare that to the human body, we have that same amount of space inside every one of us.
There's a whole universe inside of us. And so the scale in which we live, unless something is 50 feet in front of our face, we'll never be able to interact with anything that is an order of magnitude above us or below us.
We can't even see the cells of our bodies without a microscope. So there are these realities all around us that exist and that we are part of, and yet we cannot interact with.
And by that definition, 99.9% of the universe falls outside of the realm of our perception.
So who's to say that all of reality needs to fit neatly within the very narrow spectrum of the electro-optical frequency that we call visible light when we know that that's not true?
Same thing with acoustics, same thing with electromagnetics, same thing with everything. And I think it's foolhardy for science to presume that everything can be explained through the fundamental five senses and the scale in which we live because we know that's not true.
Look at dark energy and dark matter. Most of the universe can't even be seen. All right. Even the fundamental forces.
Fundamental forces, right. Right. Strong force, weak force, electromagnetism, right.
So I think we need to remember, if you are truly a scientist, we must remain open to the fact that we are judging our environment through a very, very narrow lens.
It's like sitting up on the bleachers, watching a football game at the very, very highest part of the bleachers and watching the whole game through a soda straw.
You're going to miss most of it. So that would be my two cents.
 Demons
Manny Ortez asks, Lue once said on a podcast that someone from the Pentagon told him that they knew that this phenomenon are demons.
Although Lue didn't seem to believe it. I would love for Lue to expand on that. Well, Curt, let me ask you this.
What is a demon? I think most people would submit to you that a demon is some sort of supernatural being that is based in some sort of religious doctrine and is usually malevolent to some degree.
But let's look at this from a scientific perspective. All things, by definition, are supernatural until they're explained, until they're normal.
This cellular telephone I'm speaking to you on and the Wi-Fi signals 100 years ago would be completely supernatural.
And yet in some parts of the world, actually, if I show a picture of somebody, then that's still supernatural. They think the soul is locked in the photograph.
Everything is paranormal until it becomes normal. Everything is supernatural until it becomes natural.
And that is the definition of it. It just means beyond our understanding of what's before us.
I can't tell anybody with a straight face that something is or is not demonic because it really depends on what is your definition of a demon.
And at the end of the day, I've seen enough demons in my life, combat and warfare, to know that there really is true evil in this world.
A lot of it is man-made. But I can't discount that.
I don't personally believe that myself, but I'm a big firm believer of know thy enemy.
If it turns out that these things are demonic, at least we know. I'd rather know than to guess.
Do I subscribe to that line of thinking that these are demons? No, not particularly.
What about angels? Great question. It's exactly the same thing. Angels and demons, supernatural beings that we can't explain, that seem to fall outside the realm of what we consider being normal human behavior and normal human capabilities.
Okay, let me steel man the question. Let me steel man it. When I say steel man, hopefully you're familiar with the term.
I think what the person is getting at is that, let's imagine, let's presuppose in a certain worldview that there's a deity that created the universe with intent.
And one of the first creatures they created were powerful beings that have divine powers. Some of those are angels, some of those are demons.
And then humans were created, or let's say the Big Bang was set off, and then humans were created via the process of evolution.
Do you see evidence, or do you have friends within AATIP who believe that those are demons in that sense, or angels in that sense even?
I didn't see that in AATIP, but I did see it in DoD leadership.
You know, I certainly am not going to confront someone's spiritual beliefs about something.
You know, the word angel comes from the word angelos, of light, of fire.
Think of helios, the sun, right? These are terms that have been given to explain supernatural beings and occurrences during our existence.
You know, I am, for one, despite being a scientific man, I am very much spiritual.
I don't wear my religion on my sleeve. But I don't think that the topic of UAPs or even potentially extraterrestrials is necessarily against the idea of organized religion.
When I went to Rome not too long ago, a year and a half ago maybe, and spoke to some very senior academics in the Vatican,
they told me that in the 1600s, had you told people there was no such thing as aliens, that would be considered heresy.
Because there is no limit to the dominion of God, or the notion of God. And it's only been in relative recent history that we have put these limitations on what God can and can't do.
You know, there can't be aliens because we have to be the most divine representation of God.
So I find that topic fascinating, especially as it relates to theology and philosophy.
And even sociology, our reaction to it as a species. But I did not come into contact with that, and if it was an ATIP, it was kept hidden from us.
No one talked about that. No one seemed to have any type of religious aversion looking into this topic.
As to the connection between psychedelics and aliens, or psychedelics and UAPs, you're unaware of any credible, verifiable, falsifiable data?
 Psychedelics
Well look, I mean, now we're getting into the world of consciousness. And I would submit to you, it's not everything we do a result of a conscious process occurring in our brain.
You know, by very definition, everything I do in life is a result of some sort of willful intent based upon a consciousness process occurring in my brain, just like you and everybody else.
So, you know, we realize that human consciousness is an area that we're just now beginning to explore, and we understand even less.
Is it possible that human consciousness is part of a universal consciousness? And that we can tap into this, it's not, human consciousness is not only for humans, possibly.
I mean, there's people out there who have pet cats and dogs, I'm one of them, where, you know, you have a connection with your pet, not because it's just a cat or a dog,
but because there's something deeper that you are connecting with, something far more intimate, something far more sacred than just a furry little bag of skin and hairballs.
There's something, and by the way, that life form recognizes you as well as a sentient being.
There's this appreciation that, hey, we're on the same wavelength. I may not look like you, I may not act like you or talk like you, but we're kind of the same thing.
We're both conscious, sentient beings, and we recognize that in each other. You know, and they also may explain human interactions as well.
So, consciousness may not be something that is only, you know, owned and defined by the human species.
Is it possible there's other things if we can communicate with dolphins and cats and dogs and birds and, you know, gorillas?
Maybe human consciousness isn't quite, maybe it's not so special. Maybe it's indelible. Maybe it's something that's part of all of nature.
And when I say all of nature, even beyond this planet, perhaps. Okay. Now, I'm curious about the reason for secrecy behind this whole UAP phenomenon.
 Reason For Secrecy
And I'm curious, do you believe that it's profit-driven primarily or that it's profit-driven by the private sector or profit-driven by the governmental sector or that it's altruistically motivated, like Tom DeLonge may espouse or Tom DeLonge believes?
Look, Curt, I'm... For lack of transparency. Yeah, I'm a little more practical and probably a little bit more, less optimistic for our species on this particular question.
What if there was knowledge, Curt, that was so volatile, so earth-shattering that the mere knowledge of that getting out could predicate an action that could potentially threaten the entire species?
Now, what do I mean by that? For just a moment, take off the scientific hat, take off your humanitarian hat, take off your philanthropic hat and put on a hat of national security.
We just talked about the fact that there's no indication that these things have been here to help us.
Okay. So there's really only three possibilities. They're benign or, if you will, benevolent.
Or two, they are malevolent. They're here to hurt us. Or three, they're just here to observe us and they're capable of doing both good and bad like us.
Well, if you were to put on your national security hat for a second, let's say you're a general from the 1950s or 60s and your job is to protect America and all things good and great and the height of the Cold War and you've got the Soviet bear across there and things are pretty tough, right?
And nuclear proliferation is a real thing. Now, you have information that there is something here that can outperform anything you have.
And really, anything you have is rather ineffective from a national security perspective.
And there's a thing out there and it doesn't show that it's being benevolent. So it's only one of two other options, either malevolent or it's like us.
And we see this very careful ISR surveillance of our nuclear equities.
It's interested in nuclear equities. Well, some may look at that as what we call preparation at the battlefield. And let's just say hypothetically there's a 10% chance, US has a 10% chance that these things are bad or one day they're going to come here in force and they're looking at us.
Remember, you're putting on your national security hat. So forget about everything else for a moment. Your job is to be paranoid.
And there's a small remote chance that these things are not good. And maybe there is a plan for these things at some point to come in force in 50 years from now.
And if the mere fact you have this conversation with the American people, what's going to happen? Well, the American people are going to start getting prepared.
Well, I can tell you in real life combat situations, when we send in long range surveillance LERS teams behind enemy lines, the moment the enemy finds out that we know that they know we're there,
the element of surprise is over. And so ultimately, hypothetically, imagine a scenario where maybe we had 50 years to prepare for something, but now that the cat's out of the bag, that existential action will happen tomorrow.
And by the way, we're not ready for it. We're not prepared for it. We don't have a countermeasure. We don't have a capability to counter this.
And so from a very real perspective, a national security perspective, the mere fact that you are acknowledging the existence of something may predicate an action or an act that you're not prepared to have right now.
And so I encourage you and your listeners to just for a moment, I'm not asking you to be a national security person, but I'm asking you to suspend your personal beliefs right now for just a moment and put yourself in somebody else's shoes who does feel that way.
Now, what do you do? If the mere fact of talking about this could potentially cause a reaction that you're not ready for as a.
country, as a civilization, right? Maybe that's the reason why you decided to only brief certain
presidents who have a background in intelligence. Maybe they were former directors of CIA, but the other presidents who are career politicians, they're here today gone in four years.
Maybe you can't even risk telling them. And so maybe the reason why this has been kept secret so long is actually in a weird sense, some sort of sense of patriotism by people. And maybe that's
how they justify it. And I'll leave that at that as just as a counterpoint of forcing people to
think maybe a little bit non-traditionally. Now, do I think if that happened to ever be the case,
that's a good explanation? No. I still think that we have to be honest with the American people.
It's like going to, I've said this before, it's like going to the doctor. Just because I have cancer, it's bad news. Don't keep that from me. I want to know
because maybe there's a chance I can do something about it. But do I understand that mentality?
Sure. Nobody wants to give anybody bad news. Now, am I saying that's the case? No, I'm not. It's just you asked me one of the reasons why people would want to keep this secret. Well,
that's a really damn good reason why people may want to keep this secret because the mere fact of not keeping it secret could cause a reaction that you're not ready for yet. There's nothing you can
do. You don't have a countermeasure. So again, from a national security perspective, that makes
sense. Again, I don't agree with it, but that's understandable. The general public knew or saw
 Somber
what you saw. What would the next week look like? How would the public react? Somber. I think there would be this big exhale for about a day. And then this turning inward
and trying to reflect on what this means to us and our species and ourselves. I think
Somber meaning serious. Not like Hollywood portrays people partying in the streets and
silliness like that. I think you would have some people perhaps turning to religion more so.
You might have some people turning away from religion. You might have some people turning away from religion. You might have some people turning away from religion. You might have some
turning to religion more so. You might have some people turning away from religion.
At that point, the philosophical and theological questions will be raised and people will have
some serious soul searching to do, no pun intended. And I don't think that's bad, by the way.
I think a lot of folks that have spent their times in this community being charlatans will
have been exposed and they will be probably unemployed and probably have to change their names because the rest of society will look at them in an unfavorable light.
I think there are some unsung heroes that will probably come to light
and the world will appreciate their contributions to this topic.
I think the scientific community and academic communities... No, I can't give those names. I know. What I was going to say is names that have been announced before. When you say the
unsung heroes or new names? Yeah, names that haven't been announced before. I think the scientific and academic community is going to have to take a real hard look at itself
and see why it repeated the same mistakes it did when Galileo first proposed that the earth was
not the center of the solar system. Hubris is a big part of that. And then I think maybe we
start the international conversation and say, okay, we realize that there's some things out there that are probably well beyond our petty discrepancies we have with each other. Maybe
we really need to start working together on this. Realize that we are really a global family.
It doesn't matter where you're from. It doesn't matter what your religion is, what your culture, your color, anything else. We are all brothers and sisters on this tiny
little rock or this pale blue dot that's hurtling through space.
It may unify us. Well, I would certainly hope so, unless we allow our
core nature to interfere and we look at this as opportunities to subjugate each other.
I would hope that's not the case. Okay. Lue, thank you so much. Do you have any advice for me as someone investigating
this topic somewhat anew? Keep pushing, keep asking the questions and be fearless.
That is the true scientific pioneering spirit, the ability to challenge the status quo
and be able to do so in a courageous way and in a well-meaning way.
The true enemy of science is stagnation, is acceptance of the norms because we know that's not
real science changes. Our understanding changes because we're human and humans change. So, we need to continue to pursue the truth. Wherever that truth may be,
we need to continue to pursue it. The last time we spoke, there were two comments that you said
 Somber (Continued)
that stood out to me. One was the somber, the somber heard around the world in a sense. And then you clarified that or you added to that by saying sobering. I was wondering, we can get to
that. And then also you mentioned that the charlatans of the world will be shown to be charlatans. And I, again, don't know much about this UFO community, but people in the comments
were saying, did he mean Steven Greer? So, why don't you comment on that? You can be as diplomatic
as you like. I know that you're a relatively diplomatic person. Yeah. Let me start by somber or sobering. Imagine everything you've been taught,
whether it's through Sunday school or through regular formal education in school or
what our political leaders have told us. And yes, even maybe our mothers and fathers around the dinner table have told us, or maybe at bedtime, about who we are,
right? And our background and our past. What if all of that turned out to be
not entirely accurate? In fact, the very history of our species,
the meaning, what it means to be a human being and our place in this universe,
what if all that is now in question? What if it turns out that a lot of the things that we
thought were one way aren't? Are we prepared to have that honest question with ourselves?
Are we prepared to recognize that we're not at the top of the food chain potentially,
that we're not the alpha predator, that we are maybe somewhere in the middle?
It's interesting because I was having a discussion with a friend not too long ago,
really, really, we call them graybeards in the government, really, really smart guy. I'm not going to mention his name, but I was talking to him probably a couple of months ago. And this is
a guy who was always paid to solve the hard problems for the US government. Cold war, how do we solve that? How do we do these big things? How do we go in and beat the Russians
at their own game? So this guy I respect tremendously. And we had a conversation.
He said, Lue, mankind's been around for a little while. And for most of that time,
mankind's been around, we've been smack in the middle of the food chain. We ate a lot of things,
a lot of things ate us. And that's just the bottom line. And about 70,000 years ago,
something fundamentally changed, something changed. And our species was instantly catapulted
to the very top of our planet as far as predatory animals. And now all of a sudden,
we became the most feared. We were the most lethal and the most successful. In fact,
most of the large species that existed on this planet went extinct because of us,
believe it or not, because we were eating all of it. There were a couple of species that did very, very well with our ascension, our immediate ascension. And we brought a couple of species
with us. The dog is an example where the dog species benefited greatly with mankind's ascension
as the alpha predator and wound up succeeding as well, doing very well off of that.
That changed the entire global landscape of our planet almost overnight. Large animals went extinct because of us. What if it turns out that
there's another species that is even higher on that ladder than we are?
Do we need the social institutions that we have today? Will we need governmental and religious
organizations that we have today if it turns out that there is something else or someone else
that is technologically more advanced and perhaps from an evolutionary perspective more advanced?
Have we been wasting our time all this time or are we doing exactly what we're supposed to be doing?
Does it turn out that mankind is in fact just another animal in the zoo?
Because we thought ourselves as a zookeeper before, but maybe we're just another exhibit inside the zoo. What would that mean to us? When I say sombering and sobering,
I mean that there's going to become a point in this conversation where we're going to have to
do a lot of reconciling with ourselves, whatever that means, from whatever philosophical background
you have. This is going to impact every single one of us the same and yet equally and yet differently.
And I think that's important. Do we find ourselves in a situation where history may
have to be rewritten? So that's what I meant. Now, as far as the Charlottesvilles, I'm not going to
give any attention to individual Charlottesvilles because they already have enough attention. They know exactly who I'm referring to. These are individuals who have made a cottage industry,
a career of taking people's hard-earned money and deceiving them. And not only deceiving them,
but having them sign non-disclosure agreements to make sure they don't tell the world that they've been deceived. And preying upon people who, for whatever reason, believe in them.
People who say, my narrative is the only narrative and anybody else who tells you otherwise
is trying to hurt you. I have all the answers. I have the solution. Anybody who says that,
I think it's a charlatan. And I think we need to be very, very mindful of that. They're very
dangerous. And they're dangerous for several reasons, because if they're lying to you about
that, they're probably lying to you about other things in their life, their past life and their current life, which may or may not come to light at some point. These are people who have taken
advantage of people for a very long time. And you have to be careful.
What else are the motivations of some of these charlatans or potentially could be in their motivation other than financial? Well, look at any religious charlatan,
it's the same thing. It's a cult of personality. It's somebody who, for whatever reason, thinks it's all about them and they manage the narrative. It goes to the basic core of pride
and ego in human beings and narcissistic behavior. Real, true, deep psychological issues.
Some sociopathic, to be honest with you. Is there any gold in that rubble? I'm sorry?
Is there any gold in that rubble? As in, is all of what they're saying, some of these charlatans, we don't have to name names?
No, I think there's always fibers of truth in a blanket of lies,
because that's what holds it together. There are some aspects of truth. The problem is when you
take that truth and you distort it. There's people in history that were very good at
convincing large amounts of people that they have the answer. I don't need to go back into history
to say which ones those are, but you have characters like Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate is
an example. Even Hitler to some degree, where they were very charismatic people who got people
in this web and they didn't realize it until it was too late. I just think when you're creating
all these shell organizations and pass throughs and paying people off to do things for you to
deceive other people, I think is problematic. Again, I'm not going to mention names.
I think most people are smart enough to see through it. My concern are those people who
are already sucked into it. It becomes a cult and it becomes brainwashing and manipulation.
That's my concern, because it gives a terrible name to the effort and making false accusations.
There's an old saying, I don't know if I can remember it, that
ye be careful of the knife ye uses to stab at the back of others, for surely that knife will be used
against you in the future or at some point. Anyway, being just right karma.
Karma is a bitch. Be careful. Mother Nature has a vote. She's got a way of always squaring things up at the end. That's
what I've seen anyways. What is it that you tell your family slash children about the phenomenon? They need to find their own answers.
 Family
We're all trying to figure this out together. It's okay to be excited. It's okay to be scared.
It's okay to be whatever human emotion you need to ascribe to it. It's okay. I think
honesty and truth is the best remedy always. That will get us through pretty much anything,
even when the news is bad, even when the news is good. I try not to think for anybody. Don't
try to think for my kids or my spouse or my friends. The only person I can think for is me.
I tell my kids, just be kind to one another. Be kind to the world as much as you can. Try to give
back more than you take. Because I think whether you're talking about UFOs or anything else,
that's sound advice. If you want to think about UFOs, well, it depends on how you lead your life
as a human being, which is going to take you down the road. Look, there's a lot of people
out there that want to hijack the narrative. But it's not just because it's a UFO thing,
it's because that's the kind of people they are. They will do that with anything and any opportunity that they're given. UFOs is just one of them. But there are people out there that will
try to do that and hijack that. And it's a shame. But I can't change those people. I'm not going to
it. I'm not going to waste my time changing those people. They have to deal with that on their own
terms. And that's on them. Look, there's bad people. I face them in Washington. I face them
on the battlefield. I face them every day. When someone is trying to mug you or carjack you or
something like that, there's just bad people out there. So anyways, that's my two cents,
maybe three cents. Let me ask you a further question if I may, not that I'm interviewing you, but this is actually a question for your audience too. But I can't talk to your whole
 Paradigm Shift
audience other than addressing you. So I'll address you. We look in terms of everything
from a humanistic perspective, and we want to make sense from nonsense. It's just kind of
in our DNA, right? When we are talking about the topic of UAP,
I think everybody deep down inside has this innate desire for it to quote, make sense, put it in a needle box, and it makes sense to us.
The problem is the more we talk about UAPs, the more we exchange ideas, and then the more we begin
to formulate our own opinions about UAPs. And so what happens when the topic of UAP, the truth,
doesn't comport? Because we're all doing this right now subconsciously. Subconsciously,
every person does it. We are creating these little boxes that we want to check off regarding
this topic of it's from outer space, it's from inner dimension, it's this, and they want this,
and they can do that, and they can do today. And we are building those boxes without even
realizing it. So when we ask the questions, we're actually asking the questions in a way
to fill those, to check those boxes that we've already made up psychologically in our brain, in our subconscious. But we have to avoid doing that. And it's so natural that we don't even
realize we're doing it. How do we avoid the temptation to ask really the big question
without being tempted to fill in the little boxes? A lot of the questions your wonderful audiences
ask may not even realize, but they're trying to check those boxes that they've made for themselves
in their brain. They've preconceived these little boxes that I must have an answer to this box,
because this box then relates to this and this, and this gives me a bigger overall picture and answer that I'm looking for. But what if this is even far more bizarre than that?
That how do we ask a question to something we don't even know what questions to ask? Meaning
maybe it's not even in the realm of our ability to really get to the root of this because we're
looking at everything from a human perspective, human motivation, human interest, human desire,
fears. What if it's something completely different? And so in essence, we need to avoid
creating these little boxes prematurely in our mind, which is hard because that's what we do
as a species in everything that we do. Take dating, for example, when you go on a date with
somebody, what's the first thing you do? Do I like them? Are we compatible? Do we like the same things? Do we like to eat the same thing, same diet? Am I a vegan? They're a meat eater. These
little boxes that we put in our brain already. But before you even ask the question, we have
these little voids that we want to fill. And the question is how do we avoid that temptation?
How do we pull ourselves out of a human paradigm to ask the questions that maybe
aren't human questions at all? I don't know. My one word of advice is turn to your children,
 Lue's Advice
turn to your loved ones and love them. Invest in your relationship with your loved ones and your
friends. Start with that. And people get mad. They're like, well, what the hell does that have to do with the topic of UAPs and anything else? This has everything to do with it.
Because if you don't stop to do that and realize what's really important in life,
then everything else is irrelevant. The reason why I do what I do is because it's those two
 Meaning of Life
minutes of beauty that I've seen the human species capable of. We are capable of such
hatred and destruction towards each other, but we are also capable of such kindness and beauty.
And that to me is worth saving. That is why I do what I do because
those moments, those few precious moments, all of heaven, all angels sing when a good act is done
and rejoice. And it's for that, that is worth saving the species for. That's what makes us
so wonderful. Unfortunately, we are also our own devils and we do things that are very destructive
towards each other and ourselves. And that's just part of the human condition. I think that's
probably normal. In fact, maybe that's one of the reasons why we're here perhaps is to learn to rise above it. There are certainly certain religions that feel that way,
that we're going to continue coming back over and over again until we finally learn our lesson.
Maybe that's the natural order of things. I don't know, but I do think that it's okay to be human,
but we need to recognize when we are doing evil towards each other and we have to be willing to
hold each other and ourselves accountable. And that's the life lesson. Thank you all for coming
out to this. I appreciate it. It took an interesting turn and I hope a productive one.
I think so. There was a time in about a month ago or so, or two months ago, when on Twitter, I was realizing that there's plenty of hate and I'm not saying I'm immune from this hate. Like
if people saw what occurs in my mind, I think people would be extremely surprised at the
egotism and selfishness and so on. Well, there is, I wouldn't say competing factions in the UFO
content creator community, but there are different beefs. And I thought, you know, it'd be great if we could all, why don't we all just put that aside and just have beer, even though I'm drinking
tea, but have beer and be on a collective Zoom call. Just put aside, extend the olive branch.
So while this conversation may seem like it has nothing to do with UFOs, maybe, maybe, but maybe
it's a more important conversation because it deals with what gives birth to the conversations about UFOs. Bert, how can you honestly have a question and a conversation and answers
about potentially one of the most existential issues facing our species,
if we don't even understand ourselves? How do you possibly expect to understand someone or
something else or another species, if we don't even understand how we work? They are the same.
If you want, and this is why I kind of, and I'll, I'll shut up, I'll just share with you now. The reason why I said, look, when you ask you my number one advice, understanding UFOs, go hug
your kid and go hug your family, because that's where it starts. That's where it starts. It doesn't start reading a book. It doesn't start with having a conversation, a podcast. It starts
here. It starts here right now, reaching out and understanding who you are as an individual and
what you are and what is meaningful in life. That's where that journey begins. It doesn't
start out there. It starts in here, right here. That's how you have to make that journey. The very first step to understanding out there is first understanding right here and what's here. And,
and this is why I said what I did without, you know, going into a lot of detail earlier, because it sounds kind of, kind of, I know, a little mushy, but, but I mean it. And Sean will
tell you how many times have we over the years had this conversation. There's, there's no shortcut.
You can't just all of a sudden have a shortcut and boom, now I understand, you know, the secret of the universe. You first have to try to understand the secrets of yourself that you've
been keeping hidden from yourself and others. And only then, when you understand that, will you be
able to even begin to ask the right questions to understand what lies beyond. And they're, they're going to say, oh, I thought you were about science and nuts and bolts and evidence and all
this, that and the other. And it's like, but hold on a minute. I can tell you're not even here right now. You're not even present in the conversation. I don't mean you, I mean, the, you know, the,
this type of person we're talking to. I'm like, bro, you're either lost in the future or the past
at every moment, either in fear of something that hasn't incurred occurred or in regret of something that happened before trying to figure out how not to go through that pain again and try to avoid it.
You're just on a treadmill and going, I'm not there anymore. You know, and, and it gives a
different perspective and it gives an idea of, of some of the larger ideas behind UAP,
a completely different, different vantage point. And I think one way to, to, I know we're getting
near the end of our conversation, but we do, some people ask me, I say this, this phrase and people
go, what's that mean? And I'm like, it means what the two words mean put them together. So figure it out. But consensus reality is the reality that we're all sharing our language,
our monetary systems, our, our, our decoration, the shapes of our houses and our cars.
Those are all consensus reality. We decided those things look like that. And we're going to keep, keep them looking like that. And things are going to look like this. And we're going to talk this
way and we're going to do these things that could be flipped upside down tomorrow. And the human animal would still survive. It could all be removed in the human animal would develop a new way of
communicating and a new consensus reality. And that consensus reality at some point in our past
was about animalistic spirits and, and, and, and our connection to nature. And now it's very
techno based and very, very, very self-aware and introspective. Everyone's a guru now.
Everyone's a technological, uh, uh, you know, uh, maniac. They have all the things that's a lousy
word. Everyone, everyone is an engineer. They have all of these devices in their hands, then collect all of this data. Now everyone meditates a thousand, the world a thousand years ago would
not recognize us. Now they would think we were all super people. And we all sit around still
laughing with each other because our kids can't balance a checkbook. And it's, this is a large
reality. We, we, we, especially in this field, we peel off pieces of it, of it that are way bigger
than we think they are. And we say, I'm going to try to slap a binary answer on this right now, right here. And then we can, we can go chill out. It's not that easy. Your life lasts as long as
your life does. Your journey lasts as long as your journey does. And that may not be a nuts and bolts answer some people want, but if you don't know who the hell you are, stop asking me who the
hell they are. Thank you both for coming out and for spending so much time with me and the 3,000
other people who are watching. It's an honor, man. I know we went all over the place and I love that
we got, look, you and I, when we talked beforehand, I told you whatever it is, we'll get through it. And it's not that we were anticipating conflict, but it was, we knew that there had been some,
you know, there there's been some static in the past and, and we weren't going to let you down because we weren't going to give you easy answers. You know what I mean? We were going to, we're
going to give you the real folks. That's what we talked about coming out doing today, letting our hair down being real. So I appreciate you keep doing this, you know, but we all have to learn
from the conversation we just had. Thanks, man. Yeah. Curt, I, I agree. Thank you. Always honor
and privilege to be here. Thank you for humility. Thank you for your honesty. You know, we, we,
we all, we all suffer privately sometimes with, with these demons and it's called, it's called,
it's called humanity, man. We, we, this is what, this is the situation we're in.
Let's just recognize and try to help each other out of the ditch, right? Whenever one of us falls into the ditch, don't throw stones, try to help the person out. Come on out here. Let me give you
a helping hand, you know? And I think that's, that's part of the lesson of the journey. And,
you know, I know you probably wanted to spend the last hour talking about UFOs, but in reality, you know, time has probably come for us to have an honest conversation about ourselves,
you know, in order to continue that conversation about, about UFOs.