YouTube Channel: "That UFO Podcast"
Video Title: "Luis Elizondo - 'Imminent' Interview || That UFO Podcast"

Luis Elizondo - 'Imminent' Interview || That UFO Podcast
28,721 views  Premiered Sep 7, 2024

I am joined by former head of AATIP, Luis Elizondo to discuss:

The reason he wrote 'Imminent'
AARO still having a role to play
Chinese Spy Balloon
Whistleblower Protections
Size & Shape of UFOs
Orbs
Quickfire Round

From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyQ_VIpT134

Transcript:

[Music]
this is Lou Elizondo and you are
listening to that UFO
podcast hi everyone and welcome back to
that UFO podcast my name is Andy and I
am joined once again on the podcast by
the former head of the advanced
Aerospace threat identification program
and now number one bestselling author
for the New York Times Mr Louise
elisondo Lou welcome back to the podcast
Andy thank you so much for being here
and allowing me to be here with you and
your audience really appreciate it
always love your show it's been too long
so let's get straight into it Lou
because there is a whole load to get
through uh the world has changed in the
last couple of years since you've you've
been away let's call it but you've never
completely gone away you've had some
time and I want to start off with the
hearing now talking about the book now
when you left the the conversation your
public facing conversation you said
there was a reason you had to write this
book and I wonder in the last few weeks
since imminent was released are your
reasons for writing the book
Justified wow um so yeah let me let me
first of all explain um why I wrote the
book and and the answer actually I'm
gonna answer your question in Reverse
yes I I I think it was it was worthwhile
um let me go into the reasons why I
wrote the
book written
word is indelible um I can get on
mainstream media and have a five minute
snippet of an interview but that gets
kind of converted into ones and zeros
and gets into the you know the if you
will the ethernet of U of the
world written world is written word is
is a little different um written word
outlives those who write it in fact it's
a reason why I say before why the
ancient Egyptians wrote the Book of the
Dead on Papyrus it's the reason why the
Magna Carta was written on parchment and
it's the reason why in our country
things like the Declaration of inde
dependants in the Constitution are
written down because they outlive the
authors and it is a it is an account of
as things are occurring and how they are
occurring by The Observer and no one can
take that away furthermore when you do
that in my case when I wrote the book
from my perspective no one can edit it
no one can add things to it what you see
is what you get it also had to go in for
a security review with the Pentagon and
let's not forget it you know takes a
while unfortunately in my case to almost
a year but once it gets released that is
the official stamp from the government
saying okay yes you've done the right
thing there's nothing classified in here
and even then even then Andy they
redacted portions I I I was very careful
to try to keep the book as unclassified
as possible and even then you can see in
the book that there are portions that
have been redacted by the Pentagon and I
I made the deliberate decision to lead
them in there like that because I wanted
the public to read that and see for
themselves this is an area of the UAP
topic the government doesn't want me
talking about right and that's important
because for those who at this point if
anybody still believes the government
wasn't involved in the UFO program
that's proof that they were right you
don't redact something if it's not
sensitive and you don't redact something
about a UFO if it's not real and so I
was trying to explain that I didn't want
to tip my hand at the time to some of
the folks at the Pentagon that I was
actually using that process to some
degree to our advantage uh because it
demonstrates proof positive that there
are aspects of the book they still don't
want to have conversations about um and
it it's it's used to help reemphasize
the validity in the importance of this
topic and so that was my motivation for
writing the book it's it's why I wanted
to write it again at the time I couldn't
say it exactly because I did not want
the folks in the Pentagon to understand
that I was that's what I was trying to
achieve and then they would have reasons
to slow it down or perhaps redact even
more so um it was a little bit of a
delicate dance but that was a reason why
and I even said that it would be clear
once I wrote the book why I was doing it
um and that's why I was doing it are any
of those
redactions that were left in there
surprising to you was there anything you
thought that will clear but
didn't um
well I was aggressive and trying to put
what in there what I think what I
thought needed to be in there but there
was actually a lot more that I realized
I I wouldn't be able to have I wouldn't
be able to have um published and so I
had to make an internal decision because
I could let it sit there in limbo for
the next three years meanwhile the
conversation is languishing and you've
got you know agent provocators putting
out false information and disinformation
or I could say okay let me compromise
let me put out what I'm reasonably
comfortable with that the Pentagon will
allow me to write push that envelope
just a little and let them tell me what
I can't and uh that was the strategy I
used and I I think it was effective um
look the
they approved it right so um and I'm not
going to jail for it no um and that's a
good thing for many I'm sure some people
would love to see you in jail Lou as you
know but there worse yeah yeah
absolutely there's plenty who don't um
but during your time away there's
there's been some big talking points and
those are included in the book so let me
start by asking you about Arrow the all
domain anomaly resolution office and
it's former leader now former former
leader Dr Sean cpatrick who was a
particularly divisive character in the
in the UFO conversation over the last
couple of years now he claims to have
never seen anything extraordinary no
evidence of anything extraterrestrial
nonhuman whatever label you want to put
on on this topic but I wonder to the
best of your knowledge did Sean Kirk
Patrick when he was with ar see any of
the material that we have heard long
exists for example longer versions of
the gimbal video yeah I I can't speak on
behalf of Dr Shaner Patrick but what I
can say from an outside Observer he's
also the same guy who said he did not
attend a certain meeting on Capitol Hill
only to have a photograph of him at that
very meeting on Capitol Hill right also
when you look at the actual reports that
came out um they were wrong they were
inaccurate you know he was saying things
like oh we didn't talk to any
whistleblowers yeah he did because I
know who I know who they talk to you
know one of them was me and I know what
I told them for three hours um so you
know there there there's a lot of
um I think there's a lot of false
information a lot of those reports that
they put out early on um I look I I want
to give Arrow every Fair Shake possible
I hope this new leadership uh does the
right thing I'm I'm really rooting for
them I I want them to to do the right
thing I'm not asking to agree what I'm
asking to do is do their due diligence
in some cases you know the old old
leadership they went to an office
knocked on the door and said excuse me
do you have any UFO information they
said no get out of here okay and they
went back home um they did not have the
proper access or clearances despite what
anybody might tell you I know because
there's organizations of people that
work in these organizations that told me
they never came to us Luke so okay well
then you don't ask you're not going to
get um so there was you know a lot of
problems now part of it could be that
they were a new organization you know
and there was a lot of pressure on them
from Congress so I do I do want to you
know I don't want to just sit there and
be the attack dog and you know point
fingers they did a lot of dumb things
and a lot of things wrong but I'm sure
you know a lot of the folks there that
are still there did a lot of things
right and and I want to give them credit
for it and and I'm hoping that those
individuals are the continuity for the
new leadership and you know maybe
they'll do a little better job a little
better due diligence on the reports that
they provide I mean some of it was just
factually wrong and that report got
ripped this last report got ripped to
shreds by I mean into ribbons by just
about everybody and anybody to the point
that even the Director of National
Intelligence right the co-sponsor AO
refused to endorse the report um I don't
know tell you uh that that's not a good
look when when one of your bosses says
I'm not going to endorse
this maybe you should go back and do
some more
homework so you think then Aros still
has a chance of of giving something
positive to the whole UFO disclosure
movement sure they do of course look
there there's there's there's salvation
and Vindication for everybody man I mean
it's never too late brother it it's and
and I'm rooting I'm actively rooting for
them man I heard the new guy happens to
be um former friends or somebody I know
a colleague that I respect so I'm I'm
very hopeful that this person is going
to be able to do the right thing um some
of the investigators that are part of
Arrow I I I personally know from former
jobs former lives uh and they're good
people they're damn fine investigators
at least they were so um yeah you know I
I want Arrow to win I I I want them to
succeed you know I just I also want them
to do their job right you know and
unfortunately in the past you know
they've got some making to do and again
I'm not I don't I don't want to I don't
want to paint arrow with a broad stroke
and blame everybody in Arrow because
ultimately you have to blame the leader
it falls on the leadership shoulders for
all successes and failures period and so
if there's a failure you blame the
leadership look if a mission went bad
and I was in charge I took
responsibility I got no problem doing
that you know holding yourself
accountable is very very important um I
think you know I think the track record
is very clear certain individuals were
only there for a very short period of
time in certain position and left and
then um you know were asked to leave you
know their other advising capacity as
well so again I don't want
to I don't want this conversation to
devolve into you know accusations and
pointing fingers at people um I as a
personal human being I am not attacking
sha mcer Patrick in his professional
capacity I think he was very ineffective
um but that's a professional that's a
professional perspective as an
individual I'm sure Sean's probably a
great guy probably pays his bills and
loves his children and and you know is
an American Patriot and wants to serve
his country so there is a difference
between the public Persona that people
the hat that they wear when they're
serving the public and their private
life and I don't want people I don't
want to Rally people up and and you know
show up with pitchforks and torches to
to Sean's house because i' I've been
told that you know he has been
threatened and there's there's no room
for that look I I'm threatened on a
regular basis it's not fun and Sean's
got kids he's got a family you know
people need to leave his family out out
of it they need to leave his kids out of
it you know that's that's nonsense and
anybody who engages in that type of
behavior activity no friend of mine I
absolutely not I will stand
shoulder-to-shoulder with Shan kpatrick
and and absolutely condemn such behavior
um there is no excuse for that you know
professional performance versus personal
character um I don't care what your
opinion is there there's no excuse for
that yeah I can get on board with that
um another incident if new organization
or new leadership wanted some low
hanging fruit an event that happened in
February 2023 or in late January 2023
was the shootdown of the Chinese spy
balloon which unfolded rather publicly
on on us and then World television and
it started to get a little bit like a
movie like signs or something or
Independence Day where over the course
of a few weeks we suddenly had quote
unquote UAP UFOs on the news being shot
down over Alaska and it seemed odd at
the time because we were told that
basically us sensor systems were
adjusted to then pick up more sensitive
objects which ended up with this Chinese
spy balloon relatively low Tech which
was doing a rather efficient job it
seemed um but there seemed a real lack
of any official followup on the three
unknown objects and I wonder is that
something you followed up yourself and
you can speak on so let's let's start
with with the incident this is why I
find it humorous right because we have
been telling people for years oh we have
complete air domain awareness of our
skies we know what's up there and we're
tracking baseball size 8,000 ft nothing
to worry about folks we got everything
under under control as soon as we start
recalibrating our our radar systems to
look for UAP what happens we start
seeing these these balloons the size of
a football field you know just laughting
over uh Continental Northern continental
United States collecting intelligence
from the Chinese who knows how many
times they've been doing that for how
many years right what they've collected
and oh well guess what I I guess we
really don't have full domain air domain
awareness of what our country do we uh
no we don't and that was rather
embarrassing um there are um certain
adversarial capabilities now on a
serious note there are certain
adversarial capabilities that I I cannot
expound upon and there are reasons why
our government may or may not want to
say um what that was um there could be
certain sensor collection capabilities
there could be certain
uh how do I say this carefully
um other performance capabilities that
we are not prepared to allow to let our
adversaries of the world know that we
know right yeah so one thing is a
balloon where you can take a picture
from a U2 and you can shoot it down and
comes down another thing is if it's
something else uh UFO or UAP or not it
could very well be adversarial the
problem is in a information vacuum
anytime you have a vacuum of information
a lack thereof of
information people naturally want to
insert their own narrative into that and
it's human nature it's not that they're
doing this deceptively they're not
trying to fool the public it's just it's
it's human nature to do that uh we're
we're kind of wired to do that to kind
of jump to a conclusion in order to
avoid a threat we are we look at
something and if we see for example at
night behind a bush a shape and our
minds say that's a tiger right in
reality chances are nine out of 10 times
it's not a Tiger It's Just Another Bush
but the one time it's a tiger it can eat
you so for survival we we are wired to
insert narratives and information when
there's a lack of of complete
information and so when people say those
were UFOs or they were this or they were
that um you know could also be a very
conventional
technology but something that we haven't
seen before and we're not prepared to
have that discussion publicly until we
have an opportunity to really understand
how this capability works and and and
what can it do and and whatnot so I I
don't want to comment precisely on
that because of the reasons I just
stated there are very conventional
reasons why you don't necessarily want
to elaborate on something uh until it's
it's appropriate to do so um you know I
know there was a lot of speculation I I
I tend to not really listen to the
rumors very much because rumors tend to
be just rumors there's always you know
maybe a grain of Truth to a rumor but um
usually what people wind up hear hearing
is not really at all you know based in
in in in truth or reality and that's
fair you could have came on heing
speculated or leaned on the side of it
being something anomalous or exotic or
exciting and I think it was the same
with the UAP task force report way back
when we had a whole section of shape of
UAP that was redacted and I think a lot
of folks got excited which is fair
enough given the title and the huge
redaction however I would believe a lot
of those shapes are of adversarial
Technologies or even us technologies
that have come across the wrong sensors
and you don't want China Russia and
whatever knowing what have I mean there
there's pric reasons for a lot of things
in fact back at the Pentagon uh we went
into an investigation trying to consider
it being praic being some sort of normal
technology you know and and a lot of the
times it was uh it was you know when you
had information that really fell within
those five observables then things
started to change a little bit start
saying okay well this is not
conventional um you know what exactly
are we looking at um so we you know we
have to we have to kind of avoid the
problem is if if you want to see a UFO
you start seeing UFOs everywhere right
and most of the time they're really not
they're high altitude balloons or it's a
quadcopter a misidentified aircraft or
helicopter or a drone you know missile
or something like that or an atmospheric
anomaly or aberration so we have to kind
of resist the urge even though we're
interested in UFOs to allow allow our
Zeal for the topic to Cloud our ability
to collect information if that makes
sense you talk throughout your book
about your struggles coming out and
having this conversation internally
externally you talk about others like
David grush who obviously made quite a
splash worldwide when he came out and
had the conversations he did you you're
lucky enough you mentioned to call him a
friend not only a colleague also in your
book though you talk about being
approached by a member of the Collins
Elite in the halls of power and telling
you you know this is demonic right this
is a powerful influential organization
now if those who keep this secret across
across the various foms as you call them
of the government have decades and
Decades of experience how are
whistleblowers regardless of any
promised protections ever going to be
truly sure of their safety and
confidentiality when they're having to
deal with that sort of level of power
and
secrecy we have to we have this is why
I'm doing what I'm doing we shouldn't be
afraid to speak truth to power this is
that's the very definition of democracy
sometimes to be a patriot you have to do
things that don't seem very patriotic at
the time right uh you
know you have to sometimes go against
the grain you know um and you do it for
the right reasons you're not doing it to
hurt people you're doing it to help
people you know I mean look let's I
would never compare myself to this
person but look at for example people
like Braveheart right I mean there were
a lot of people that didn't like him or
what he was doing but he was doing what
he thought thought he needed to do for
the betterment of of everybody else
right and history is full of people like
that now let me be clear I'm not
comparing myself to someone like that
I'm just simply saying those feelings
that that people like that have I
understand very well because that's my
motivation I I I don't want to go
against the grain I didn't want to leave
a highp paying job and a cushy job and
being at the top of my game and
intelligence I mean I I could have been
retired by now with writing my own book
about how intelligence works right um
but sometimes you have to make decisions
that aren't necessarily convenient or
comfortable right you have to do what's
right if you take an oath whether it's
to your spouse never to cheat on them or
in my case you know to never cheat on my
country right when I took an allegiance
to to defend this country from all
enemies and foreign and domestic that's
a sacred oath brother I mean that's
that's a lifelong oath you're never
relieved with that oath after you get
out of the government okay you don't
have to worry about that anymore there's
no such Proviso that's lifelong and so I
did what I did because I took that oath
and that meant something very serious to
me and so that was my motivation to to
come out I I thought that people needed
to know and by the way it was a team
effort it wasn't just me you know people
come out and say oh you're a hero no I'm
not a hero and I I say this over and
over again and I know because I know the
difference because I've been with Heroes
overseas and in combat and some of them
never came back right so I know the
difference I'm not a hero I'm just an
average schmuck who serves his country
and believes in what he's doing and I
think pretty much anybody in my SHO Jews
probably would have done the same thing
probably would have no choice to do the
same thing in fact maybe even done a
better job than me um it just turned out
that I happen to be you know the guy in
the barrel at the time and and and made
the decision that I did um but that's
not special that that's anybody who
loves our country would would do the
same um I'm not saying it was easy
wasn't
easy but that's what we do you know
that's that's what makes
makes the world work people who actually
have value into something right they
they believe in something and um you
can't for any amount of money pay you
can't you can't pay somebody off for
that and I think it's fair if people
have read or listened to your book you
don't constantly take the credit for
things you're always mentioning you were
with other people names like Hal of Jim
Sean Christopher melan you know
lat Jim latsky Chris melon uh David
grush you know that is a guy who gave up
a hell of a lot to have this
conversation to the American public and
who got shellacked for it I mean just
brutally you know um and I I think
that's a disgrace and and by the way
they deserve credit maybe more credit
than me they're they're they're
incredible human beings who've done
incredible work Bob Bigalow back in the
early days Senator Harry Reid and
Senator Ted Stevens Senator Inu right
and John Glenn and there's a whole long
chain of individuals I'm just one little
Link in a huge chain
um and you know hopefully at some point
those those stories will come forward
and people will begin to to learn just
how comprehensive the US government's
effort into studying UAP
UFOs really
is and the we hear a lot about the
public side of it now from yourself and
what you can talk about some really
interesting stuff we'll talk about
chapter 8 and not expecting you to
remember that L um groups like The
Collins Elite being at loggerheads
against Legacy uep programs thought was
really interesting that little nugget
and personally hadn't really thought
about Gatekeepers or secrecy Keepers
being at odds with each other that's a
really interesting concept when you
think they're they're not on our side as
such so with the powers at be not
necessarily working together
harmoniously is there any chance that
good can come from that in terms of any
UAP disclosure that you start to get
leaks or dissenting individuals who want
to maybe break rank yeah yeah I mean I
think you know speaking truth power is
is critical uh especially in the
National Security apparatus for any
country um look I I want to be clear
here because people will say Colin's
Elite and they say oh you
know
Christian fundamentalists look there's
nothing wrong with being necessarily A
fundamentalist there's a problem of
being a radical doesn't matter whether
it's Christian or Muslim or Jewish or
Buddhist or any type of
radicalization is problematic um because
because it can interfere with proper
decision making that's that's good for
the the better the larger group um so I
want to be clear I'm not picking on I'm
I'm deeply spiritual myself so this is
not a Christian thing people say oh
crazy Christian fundamentalist no no no
wait no wait a minute that's not what I
was saying what I was simply saying is
that radicalism by any other label is
still radicalism right just whether
you're wearing a you know a Christian
robe or you're wearing a robe by any
thing U doesn't doesn't matter so um I
want to be very careful to separate you
know those individuals who identified in
the
book it's not that they are they're
Christians so they're bad it's the
opposite they were bad they happen to be
Christian and even I don't think were
bad ultimately I think they were doing
in their heart what they felt is right
and for that I can't blame them I don't
agree with it but I don't blame them for
them doing what they did because in
their hearts they believe they're doing
the right thing for the right reasons um
this go goes to the bigger conversation
of of of truths in the world there are
two types of truths in the world uh
Believe It or Not people say no there's
no truth is only the truth no it's not
it's actually there's two types there's
universal truth such as for example this
gravity right affects us all equally or
at least most of us maybe me a little
more sometimes uh but um gravity is real
for everyone and then you have so that's
a universal truth then you have a
personal truth and a personal truth can
be just as strongly adopted and believed
and accepted as a universal truth but
it's not by everybody so politics
religion culture things like that where
people are willing to die for because
it's just as true to them as gravity but
it's not universally accepted and so we
need to understand that the difference
between a personal truth and universal
truth because there are differences and
do we have a right to allow our personal
truth
to to affect our decision-making process
as if it was a universal truth honestly
I can't answer that I don't know that I
personally try to separate both and
that's why I'm always very clear to
caveat what is my opinion I may believe
it very strongly but it's still my
opinion right um and I I I'm very clear
to make that distinction where
others it's a little maybe a little more
challenging to do
that I'd recommend many folks if they
haven't already because I've seen the
numbers uh to go and watch an interview
with Kurt J on theories of
everything really detailed interview
Kurt's wonderful as well and you get a
very different aspect of the
conversation I feel given his background
and expertise and you talk about
corruption within that and you talk
about you know religious corruption
moral corruption maybe touching on some
of those points you've just made and I
wonder that speaking of those folks who
have gone behind due process and have
made decisions um without the correct
oversight which largely is a lot of this
conversation from your point of view and
your colleague's point of view um and
you see that's a dangerous slippy slope
to start going down however in the
movies the greatest villains are the
ones who while in the wrong truly
believe they're doing something right or
at least they're relatable and I wonder
is there an element to this gatekeeping
or secret keeping you feel given what
you know and what others know that is
relatable for national security reasons
or
otherwise look I'll be the first one to
tell you um what I'm doing I believe is
a right thing to do but I could be wrong
um you know uh maybe the other side is
right maybe maybe Americans aren't ready
the world isn't ready to have this
conversation um I disagree with that and
I think we have to give people the
chance to at least make that decision
for themselves but I've been asked many
times you know did you do the right
thing by coming out you know I think I
did that's a personal truth that's not a
universal truth there are people right
now in the Pentagon that will tell you
to your face that I made the wrong
decision and I'm a traitor and I never
should have had this conversation
publicly uh because I put the government
in an impossible
situation um you know could they be
right yeah they could they absolutely
could um I I don't think so but but they
could be um so I'm very aware of that
you know people say well did you do the
right thing I don't know I hope so you
know ultimately that's for you to decide
you know that's do you want this
information or not and if you don't then
you know maybe I I made the wrong
decision um but I've always cided on on
the argument that
look even if the information's bad I
want to know if I go to the doctor and
the doctor knows I have cancer do I want
to know I mean do I want to know no but
do I want to know yes I I want to know I
I need to know so maybe I have a chance
to do something about it you know it's
kind of like those inconvenient
conversations when someone says you
know look do you think my my my
girlfriend my boyfriend my my my my
significant other cheating on me right
people say do you really want to know
like yeah I really want to know and then
they find out and they're like
o maybe I don't really want to know you
know I think I want to know until I know
and then I realize I really didn't want
to know um this conversation could be
something like that and I I respect that
and I understand that uh but again that
needs to be your decision not mine right
you need to be presented with the facts
and then you get to decide what those
facts mean to you and at the end of the
day if you go want to watch the
Kardashians and you know TV or anything
like that then that's fine you that's
your life to do so but at least you've
had the chance to make that decision for
yourself it hasn't been kept from you by
some bureaucrat who's made the decision
that you know what you can't handle the
truth wait a minute that's for you to
decide not that person right and that's
that's what drives me to to have the
conversation that I'm having now and you
know it's ultimately ultimately that's
for you to decide if I did the right
thing or not not me
going to jump into your academic
background now Lou now your background
is and I hope I get this right
parasitology um which is the study of
parasites biology microbiology and the
like and I wonder have you read or seen
the three body problem I'm aware of the
three body problem I am okay and a big
hit on Netflix for a lot of folks
recently it was like friends with UFOs
as it kind of turned out but the book's
a lot better in many people's minds but
a key premise in that is another
intelligent civilization has sent a tiny
little particle essentially to the Earth
which is a supercomputer it's surveying
us ahead of their arrival and we don't
even know it's here until it starts kind
of interfering and messing with things
in neology the research so often is done
with things we can see with our eyes or
sensor systems can see that are sizable
and I wonder you've spoken in your book
about implants being found in surgeons
that are evading movement when they're
trying to get them out and these things
are pretty small during your studies and
at the Pentagon or since do you know of
anything where we are looking at the
micro level to see if we are being
visited by a non-human
intelligence so my focus primarily and I
can't speak for everybody else at the
Pentagon but but that was part of our
program my focus was primarily nuts and
bolts and macro level so we're talking
about objects that can interfere with
military weapon systems uh PR a
airflight safety issue to our combat
aircraft and have the ability to
interfere with our nuclear
capabilities uh um I am not a a a
trained surgeon I am not a trained
medical practitioner or or uh someone
who who conducts forensics analysis on
on you know on these types of things we
had people that had those types of
certifications and so we relied on their
input and their analysis quite heavily
um as for miniaturization I mean the
greater philosophical question is that
you
know is it is it possible well look at
our own species right we we we
miniaturize everything we go from from
uh my
gosh one can look at at at anything
right look look at the first um computer
how big it was compare that to a
microprocessor right uh compare uh the
first um communication device and now
compare it to you know discret
communication devices that we use
everything that we have started off much
much bigger and then we begin to
miniaturize
and miniaturize and get smaller antennas
for example everything we make it
smaller lighter U easier to use more
functional more capable so I I think I I
don't think it's a far stretch to assume
or presume that maybe there's technology
uh involved with UAP that is is micro
even Nano um look at look at some of the
the world's smallest get online just
type in the world's smallest engine
right um and you have to use an electron
microscope to actually see it
right it's it's literally it's just a
chain of atoms right think about that
for just a moment from where we went
from the steam engine and the internal
combustion engine back just a century
ago to now what we've done um so yes it
makes perfect sense um you know but
again we we always look at things in
human terms we always we always tend to
look at everything through the optic of
where we are in our own personal
development you know well for example
you have organizations like SE well
we're looking for techn signatures and
radio frequencies with thin our Milky
Way of of of advanced life well don't
look down that's not really that
advanced it may seem like it's Advanced
at the time right especially when before
we were using smoke signals and now
we're using you know Morse code but look
where we are now right 5G right WiFi LTE
and and now we're getting into Quantum
communication which there is no radio
frequency there is no RF signature right
is that the way that true Advanced
civilizations communic
quite possibly so we may be looking you
know it's it's like saying I want to
look for signs of an advanced
Civilization by looking for you know uh
bonfires on the moon well that's not
that advanced right chances are you you
might want to be looking for something
else uh the same holds true as well when
we're talking about you know right now
in current day we thinking everything
out there that's Advance is going to
kind of look kind of like our stuff
maybe a little cooler maybe a little
faster a little bit more when in reality
it could be a completely completely
different Paradigm altogether something
we are completely ill prepared for
something that we have no idea even
exists and that's what I wondered even
if there was ever a virus or a disease
or anything linked to some kind of
non-human
intelligence uh and you wouldn't know
would you like how how I'll tell you
right now that's a good point when I was
in school at University of Miami I I I I
studied virology and I had a professor
who said that there was every indication
that a virus was not was not uh uh
natural to this planet that it was in
fact an alien life form now I kind of
chuckled at the time but he said look
you know what is a virus well a virus is
a capsid with these legs that does not
have DNA and yet it replicates it does
all the things that life forms do and it
will it will it will infect a host and
it will multiply do all the things that
we associate as being alive and yet it's
not alive um so
it is when you look at something how a
virus works you know there there are
some scientists today that believe
viruses are of extraterrestrial origin
because there's no Natural Evolution
here on Earth to suggest that they
evolved naturally now I I don't
necessarily subscribe to that but you
can look now online and anybody can see
that there are professionals that will
actually State yes we this may not be
from Earth so is it really that
unrealistic no not at all
and just to clarify that's pure
speculation folks disclaimer you can see
a lot of things online that aren't
necessarily true but yeah yeah yeah no
I'm just what I'm saying though is that
you know even when I was in school you
know long time ago you know I tell
people this is gray not blonde you know
Moses and I were in a college together
um you know there were scientists
renowned scientists even back then that
were speculating that a virus may not be
of terrestrial
origin so going from the micro to the
macro like you mentioned Ross Kart who
you know well and you done a wonderful
interview with on news nation and he's
what he's carved out a wonderful Niche
for himself through news nation and his
reality check show people should check
that one out um discussed a while back a
UFO so big that it couldn't be moved and
was actually built over Lou um and it's
still used to this day as a working
building and I wonder was that something
you had heard of at the time and how
common could that
be I unfortunately cannot discuss that
um I have to be very careful I can
discuss what is in the book because I
approval to do that what you are
referring to uh is something that I
would not be able to confirm or deny um
and let me be very clear with that I
cannot elaborate at all um if someone
else has elaborated on it that's fine I
have not been given any permission to to
discuss anything like
that help me then because on a similar
TCT and it's my next question anyway
shapes often discussed as well as as
size but on Joe Rogan you mentioned a
Uso so underwater or you know UFO
basically so big that it was a size of a
small City Block captured off an oil rig
um so some people are going to hear this
and I'm used to the UFO conversation but
wonder why you can mention that but not
potentially the the UFO under the
building because I'm not discussing
sources and methods I'm not discussing
capabilities or locations um I'm not
discussing a an actual program I'm
discussing simply what was observed
um you know you're asking me to confirm
or deny something the existence of
something um I don't have permission to
do that what I can do is simply say from
my personal observations I've seen video
of an event right but I'm not saying
where that event is under what
circumstances what collection
capabilities where that place was how
long ago it was you know I'm not giving
any of that it's just anecdotal and so
um that in itself isn't classified if I
give you details to that I could get in
serious trouble so I'm very to do that
and that Uso on Rogan was a big one for
many folks it was one of the big clips
that went viral online understandably
how often are UFOs that size picked up
from your expertise and knowledge yeah I
mean we have we have some information to
suggest that they're a little more
common than people might think um you
know there's another example in Puerto
Rico in the late 1990s that was given to
the New York Times uh about a very
similar sized object coming to the
surface and uh a frogman dangling down
from a line and a a cruise missile being
being sucked underwater and disappearing
um there are the examples like the
Phoenix Lights where there in some cases
reported these enormous triangles or in
some case Boomerang type craft that seem
to be almost a mile mile wide um so they
are more common than people might expect
I had one source that I had a
conversation with I'll be careful what I
say I won't say when or where but it was
a cylindrical object actually kind of
like this huge uh that uh hovered over
their vehicle um and it was about 200
feet um it was like the size of a big
yacht uh and it was just a perfect
cylinder with with some lights um and it
followed the vehicle uh they could see
it through the sunroof and they were
they were absolutely terrified um at
first they joked about it because they
heard a report on the radio um they
thought it'd be funny to go and try to
find it and apparently it found them
uh and uh the father of one of these
individuals was somebody who I worked
with colleague I worked with and they
were very concerned so you know it it's
size is probably irrelevant I think um
look we have technology ourselves we
have you know a Corvette and then we
have an aircraft carrier would make
sense right I mean depending what you're
using it for if I'm going to go cruising
around with just another person with me
I'll probably take the Corvette but if
I've got to take 5,000 you know closest
buddies of mine somewhere I'm probably
going to use the aircraft carrier
different utility right different
purposes of each vehicle yeah form
versus function on that and I'm I'm sure
I'm going to get this right but one of
my favorite interviews you've done Lou
was with astronaut Terry vers and that
was a couple of years ago now and you
actually discussed the shape versus
potential function as well so I'd
recommend people go and check that out
because that may have pardon the pun
went under the radar back a few years
ago when you were you were doing quite a
lot of interviews back then so
definitely check that one out in the
book um what excited a lot of folks L
was you mention many past events so
classic cases like wendam Malmstrom
Roswell the Tic Tac to name a few
something I've been thinking though as
we heard for for some time that these
events particularly things like the Tic
Tac were occurring almost daily with the
US Military and are you surprised in the
last few years even we haven't had
another Tic Tac event leak to the public
with more video pictures or or maybe
some not at all in fact there's been a
lot of leaks but no I think now that the
government's finally taking this
seriously and people now feel that they
can actually start reporting some of
this information they're trying to give
the system a chance to work so uh no and
it's and and I'm actually kind of
relieved because that's you know some
people that that's an indicator that oh
these events aren't happening no no no
they're happening they're happening a
lot very regularly what's happening is
the systems now beginning to ingest this
information so people don't have to Le
the information it can go through the
proper channels now the jury still out
whether or not you know the proper
channels are are actually functional and
you know are they are they working
properly but they have been set up so I
think that's actually a good indicator
now I know from The public's perspective
is like well how then how are we going
to know well there's mechanisms for that
as well you know so there's the
government has to have certain
information then they gets to report to
the Congress and the Congress says okay
we want this unclassified then that
information gets unclassified and then
it gets distributed to to to the
American people um so I'm I'm I'm okay
with that you know you have recently a
bilateral information sharing
relationship now between Japan and the
United States well so sole purposes of
sharing UAP related information there's
other countries now that want to enter
into similar agreements with the United
States because they have their own UAP
information so the the the the cogs of
the gears are finally as as rusted as
they may be are finally beginning to
turn and the only way to knock off the
rust is to turn those gears you know the
more they turn the more efficient they
become and and then things start to work
so sometimes that lack of information or
silence can be a good thing because the
actual due processes are happening in
the background yeah yeah absolutely I
mean it could be a good indicator right
so now we need to make sure that there's
proper oversight now that the gears are
turning we need someone to come in and
monitor the gears and make sure that
they're turning at the right ratios the
right speeds they're the cogs are
meeting correctly and that's part of
congress's job to make sure okay now for
oversite tell us what you're seeing
report to us how is this working right
um and so that's that I think I think
that's a good indicator we just got to
keep heat and keep pushing Congress to
to do the right thing and pass new
legislation and protect the
whistleblowers and get that
accountability within the executive
branch to now report to the legislative
branch good time to mention that then
that the UAP disclosure act failed last
year a very comprehensive Bill uh
sponsored by schummer and rounds it's
going back through um some of the big
callouts being eminent domain and the
presidential review board whistleblower
protection are huge part of that what
chances of success do you give it second
time
round I remain hopeful and optimistic um
I encourage anybody who's interested to
to support um this effort um I know
there's some contention in there with
some folks about imminent domain um but
I'd hate to throw the baby out with a
bath water um it's it's a good piece of
legislation I think it's going to really
help uh Drive uh where we want to go on
this topic um you know could we always
do an amendment later on if imminent
domains really a big rub for some folks
sure but I'd hate to throw out the
entire legislation simply because of of
the piece of imminent domain um
look imminent domain is unnecessary to
even write because the government
already has that Authority so if it's
that big of a deal for folks just don't
put it in the legislation I think the
leg rest of the legislation is really
really good um I I think it I I would
encourage anybody if they want further
disclosure you know call your if you're
if you're an American citizen call your
representative and tell them hey man
this is important to you I think that's
important maybe write a letter write an
email you know make a phone call I'll
put some links to help folks do that in
the US because 60 or 70% of this
audience online and and on audio are in
the US so folks if you if you check out
those links in the description there's
easy templates you can use to either
make phone calls or write letters so
that'll definitely help um it's a
massive thing you can do um in the book
glue you talk about orbs and it's a
subject I can be on the fence with
depending on the the source and the
evidence because a lot of ring or Bells
pick up dust and insects flying past and
people pass them off as orbs but what
you describe you your family and your
neighbor seeing is something that
undeniably wasn't dust or or the like
now you mentioned you you saw these
green orbs floating by in the house
between 5: and 8:00 p.m. going down the
hallway your your house isn't filled
with CCTV and whatnot and and you never
attempted to film them but I wonder did
you speak to any colleagues following
these experiences either in ATP or or
professionally 100% yeah this is this is
what's so intriguing look let me first
caveat here are the facts these luminous
balls green diffus balls of of of light
whatever they were right between the
size of a volleyball and sometimes the
size of a baseball they would different
sizes uh were not only witnessed by
myself and my spouse but also my
children and our neighbors uh and it
started occurring when I really started
getting involved in atip and then ended
when I when I was no longer involved
what's also very important is that this
was experienced by other people in the
program as well it wasn't just me it
wasn't an isolation incident this was
occurring regularly and routinely with
other people that were involved in the a
tip program now let me also state is it
100% conclusive that this is related to
UFOs of UAP no it's not it is still
possible this could be some sort of
natural atmospheric as crazy as it may
sound ball lightning or S Elmo's Fire or
maybe I've got some bad conduit in the
house and it's creating an arc discharge
and now I've got a plasma ball you know
of of ionized air who the hell knows
right yeah I don't know um but what I do
know is that these balls of light were
witnessed by again not just myself and
my family and our neighbors but other
people in in the H program who by the
way had a lot more experiences than just
that not my story to tell
um but I suspect at some point in the
future those stories will be told by
those individuals and it wasn't just us
experiencing these these green luminous
balls actually I had a buddy of mine I
won't say he's actually the book um a
buddy of mine oh yeah say it John Robert
um he's in the book and uh very good
friend of mine and we've been colleagues
for 30 years just about all over the
world chasing bad guys uh and uh he had
experiences as well
um to mention some other folks whose
names I can't mention yet but you know
very very interesting things started
happening at his house he has never been
public about it so I'm not going to
discuss that um but he's just one of
many many people part of our program
who've had very very interesting
experiences at their houses during the
time of
a it's interesting other folks had these
at the same time as well and there may
or may not be a correlation there like
you say with the program surveillance
whatever it may have been it could be
completely coincidental but do you any
part of your remote viewing history
which you've touched on open some kind
of door to these objects more so than
others do you think that was any element
of it you know it's hard to tell I I I
couldn't tell you either way because I
still struggled even with the idea of
remote un to be honest with you um you
know is it real yes do we use it in the
government yes do we use it in law
enforcement yes are we still using
it um but I don't know exactly how it
works I don't know why it works I don't
know how pervasive it is I know it seems
like a lot of people can do it really
not that special is it if most people
can do it um so I don't know if there's
a correlation there it may just be a
vestigial aspect of Being Human right
just like an appendix when we were when
we were sometime thousands of years ago
where we didn't have the pervasiveness
and the sophistication of verbal
language to verbalize and communicate um
we relied on this sense to communicate
just like when two dogs enter a room and
there's this non-verbal communication
occurring you know maybe it's when
you're when you're traveling and you you
pick up the phone and you call your
spouse and say hey honey I wanted to say
hi and they're like oh my gosh I was
just thinking of you right um be
something that simple that it's it's
it's probably it's it's probably based
somewhere in in in quantum mechanics if
I had to guess again pure speculation
but a lot of scientists now are are
saying that human consciousness is
actually a Quantum process that is
occurring in the brain and if that the
case while we do know that you know
quantum mechanics is a very interesting
field of study and all sorts of
possibilities can happen you can have
the Duality principle you can be
literally in two places at once doesn't
sound you know as Einstein referred to
Spooky action at a distance uh there's
these weird little nuances of quantum
mechanics that don't seem logical and
definitely fall outside the realm of
Newtonian physics and even even
Einstein's theory of relativity and yet
we're observing these things uh the
these these these characteristics in the
laboratory so um maybe it's tied to that
do I think that there's a correlation
between UFOs and remote viewers what I
can tell you definitively is that
there's been remote viewing sessions
where remote viewers have um been
targeted uh to an adversarial technology
and have seen UFOs in the remote viewing
sessions following the Target that we
are targeting
ourselves someone you mentioned in the
book is Russell tar and I just had
nearly two hours with Russell just a
couple of weeks ago so if anyone wants
to learn more about remote viewing
there's not many better folks probably
along with Hal pitov to to listen to
remote viewing then Lyn Russell so check
that one out folks if you want to learn
a little bit more as well as another
another one was very good my mentor uh
was probably the best remote viewer in
the Army at the
time so that's why I'm very say oh you
you good at remote viewing well not
really you know I I I play the drum but
next to Travis Barker I don't really
play the drums very well so I'm not
going to comp put myself anywhere in
those that
category L I'm bringing back an old
format that was very popular that
through laziness I've not done for a
long time but I think just for yourself
I want to get this chance for a lot of
listeners topics to fire into the quick
fire round so I'm going to mention a few
different things and you can say as
little or as much on each of them as you
want and then we'll wrap up
okay so put on H do you know what a lot
of the people in my Discord Channel hate
the phrase buckle up so I'm not going to
use that one so you can leave the seat
belt off but drive safely folks there's
my advice um but the first one is a
James Fox documentary the program your
thoughts uh I don't know much about it
um James Fox is a is a is a a great
producer and director um but I don't
know anything really about his project
and uh haven't been part of it nor do I
have I seen it so I can't comment on it
hopefully we will see that soon uh James
has been doing a lot of work in the
background on that um another
documentary that was confirmed through
yourself was Dan Farah who was involved
in your your book deal initially as well
can you talk about the documentary Dan F
is producing and your involvement in
that in any way unfortunately I'm not at
Liberty to discuss um anything that uh
Mr Farah may be involved with uh at this
time not yet your thoughts on and here's
one for you the naaska mummies that have
been doing the rounds over the last year
or
so uh again I haven't been involved um I
I I'm a little disappointed the way that
it was brought out whether it's
legitimate or illegitimate I think it
was brought out in such a
sensationalized way that it really
diminished um some of the value and
maybe some of the impact of it um you
know bringing it to to the Mexican
Congress in the way that it was was a
little bit showboy and I think it turned
a lot of people off so even if it turned
out to be
legitimate the problem is it it you know
first impressions weren't that great um
you know so I I I don't have any real
comment again I wasn't part of that I
haven't studied the mummies uh and I
don't have the qualifications you know
I'm not a not a biological forensic
scientist and so I wouldn't be able to
tell you one way or the other I do know
that some people said there's some very
interesting aspects of it and compelling
aspects of it but I'll I'll let the
experts handle
that H your thoughts on the work of the
Saul Foundation spearheaded by Gary
Nolan and Peter Fant fantastic fantastic
great organization I got to tell you too
that that Gary is an incredible human
being if you ever have a chance to talk
to him one of the smartest guys you'll
ever meet um one of the most sincere
guys you'll ever meet uh an incredible
National Treasure to the United States
in the world you know Nobel nominee but
more importantly just a wonderful human
being and he has done a lot for our
country that he has he can't talk about
but I know what he's done um he's put a
lot on the line uh and his credibility
um you know if there's a few guys that I
would want in my Foxhole Gary's Gary's
one of them I've been fortunate Gary a
few times and uh wonderful to speak to
and he says I have a massive forehead so
that was my my take away from it as well
so but he's a very fun I've been called
I've been told I have a five head and I
asked what is a five head they said
apparently it's more than a forehead so
yeah I understand I think I suffer and
now that my hair is receding as you can
see here uh you know I I suspect at some
point I'm just goingon to look like a
bowling ball yeah mine is running out be
an alarming rate as well from my face um
uh another thing mentioned in the book
is that TW 23 minute video that's been
rumored and talked about online for a
long time you mention it was filmed near
another country's sensitive nuclear
facilities so is that all the reason
that we will never see that video made
public uh more than likely uh because
there's a lot in that that that video
that shows sources and methods and um
you know if there was a way to strip
that out in the metadata maybe but
it's remembering that video it would be
very difficult to do that
sure um this one I'm hoping you can
clear up some there's a lot of online
nonsense right now especially on the X
or Twitter Community um your former
colleague Jay Stratton is rumored to
have a book coming out and a lot of
folks are saying that both sides of your
story and his story won't add up do you
think that's in any way true or would
you expect that to get a lot of
correlation no no I I I don't know what
Jay's writing um you know Jay and I had
interesting and and similar experiences
and also different experiences for
different organizations while working
for the program um I suspect that you
know a lot of what what Jay is writing
May probably reinforce what I'm saying
but he also had his own experiences as
well and so there's you know just like
you and and your friend that you meet at
you work together at at work with you'll
have a lot of same experiences but if
you're working in one office he's
working in another office you're not
going to have exactly the same
experiences right you're going to have
different but similar experiences that
basically um
support or reinforce the the greater the
greater effort um you know Jay's a very
smart man uh he has done a lot of good
things for this country a lot and I'm
really looking forward to his book
coming out I think it's going to be very
revelatory um I know what he's been
through um and I'm really excited for
him and I'm excited for you all to know
what he's been through last couple then
we can let you go um Danny Sheen was on
with me and you know Danny well of
course and he mentioned the cia's golden
domes project to where they had a center
where they were detecting UFOs even when
cloaked as his wording was not on radar
and through a new technology was that
something you're aware of and it was
similar to me in terms of like project
interl I cannot I cannot elaborate on
that unfortunately I any type of us
technology or capability I would not be
able to uh um the book ends Lou with a
chapter called New Horizons and I wonder
if in 5 years time you're coming back to
write the Second Edition what are some
of those new chapters going to be called
would you
hope wow fed
complete fed complete fatal complete is
uh means um done whereas imminent means
it's coming Fair complete means we're
there and you may be touched on it there
saying we are there but is that you're
done or it's the next step and someone
else is taking over oh my goodness well
look I
I am not the most qualified to lead this
effort people keep saying you're you're
you're you're you're the spearhead of
disclosure that may be true but but I
shouldn't be there's a lot more people
out there far more qualified than me
smarter than me more savvy than me um I
am I cannot wait till the day comes when
somebody else and other
people can continue to carry this
conversation forward um it's not because
I don't want to
is because I'm not I don't have the
requisite qualifications I don't think
to to push this to the next level you
know I'm I'm I'm very good at getting
things moving but once they're moving
you need a professional race car driver
you know I I can get the car in the
garage I can get the engine started but
to win a formula F1 Formula race you
need a professional race car driver and
I don't think I'm that um you know I I I
don't I I I wish I was but I don't you
know I'm very my my skill sets and
talents are very limited and focused to
certain things and you know just like
I'm not a politician uh I'm diplomatic
and I try to be as diplomatic as
possible but I'm not a politician you
know I wear my mind on my sleeve what
you see is what you get um so am I the
best person to be a spokesperson for for
ultimately for disclosure probably not
you know um so hopefully someone way
more qualified than me steps up to the
plate here soon and can take this over
and then I can just sit back fade off
into the sunset quietly sit in the
bleachers and support them you know from
from the bleachers um because I'm I you
know I but this way I I'm no Star
Quarterback okay uh and I know that and
and I think most people would agree I'm
I could throw a ball and catch a ball I
guess but uh when you're the only one
out in the field yeah it's easy to be
the quarterback but when you have a real
team come out on the field then again my
my analogy about Travis Barker and me
being a drummer you know I can say I'm a
drummer all day long until I I you know
play next to someone like of his caliber
and then all of a sudden I realize you
know I'm just a monkey banging on the
Bongos at some point though does does
your wife Jennifer put her hand on yours
and say enough or has that even came
close to happening in the last couple of
years every day every day every day uh I
it has this has caused great stress on
my family um you know I I won't go into
detail here because it's not appropriate
but um this has taken a great toll on me
it has it has
ruined any semblance of peace and um you
know a marriage is a relationship that's
5050 and if I can't give I it's not it's
100% 100% let me clarify that any
relationship is 100%
100% And you know
there is a lot of times I can't give my
my 100% because I'm giving it to
something else I'm giving it to this and
it's not fair to her and uh it's caused
a great amount of stress and and
fortunately she's an incredible human
being and and has tolerated it um
but you know that may come a day
where where she can't where she won't
and you know I I can't blame her um my
loyalty use to to my children and my
family and my
country I don't want to have to choose
between the three
um
yeah that is all for this episode thank
you very much for tuning in don't forget
to leave the podcast a review on your
chosen platform apple and Spotify do
make a huge difference to the algorithm
if you're checking the show on YouTube
please don't forget to like and leave a
comment on here as well any sharing you
do is very much appreciated on any
social media platform and finally you
can listen to shows ad free and sponsor
free in their glorious full versions by
subscribing for less than the price of a
coffee on Apple Spotify just search that
uo podcast premium YouTube you can sign
up and be a member or you can do that
through patreon.com thank you very much
for listening
folks it wasn't a Tic Tac and not quite
a s are more like a hub designed by Cher
a little Baro and quite steampunk like
Alice was playing based for the
parliament of Fu the little H
right out of my window and when I shoved
out the screen he made it an issue I
don't think he expected me to see his
ass but I'd had some champagne and
smoked a little br