YouTube Channel: "Ryan Sprague"
Video Title: "Luis Elizondo & Christopher Mellon: An IMMINENT Conversation"

Luis Elizondo & Christopher Mellon: An IMMINENT Conversation
34,971 views  Premiered Aug 21, 2024  
#pentagon #uap #elizondo #elizondo #uap #pentagon 
WARNING This is a REBROACAST from February of 2022. With the recent release of Luis Elizondo's book, Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs, Ryan rebroadcasts a classic episode of the podcast where he is joined by former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense and former Staff Director of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Christopher Mellon, and former U.S. Army Counterintelligence Special Agent and lead investigator of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, Luis Elizondo. Mellon and Elizondo discuss an article written by Mellon published by The Debrief about the deafening silence by the United States Air Force on cooperating with the Pentagon and Congress in relation to UFOs/UAPs. They also discuss what role the Air Force has played in the past with this highly controversial topic, reasons why they may be silent, and why that needs to change.

From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoyyRIqbZyA

Transcript:

with the recent release of Luis Elizondo book 
imminent inside the pentagon's hunt for UFOs  
Ryan rebroadcasts a classic episode of the 
podcast where he is joined by former deputy  
assistant Secretary of Defense and former 
staff director of the Senate intelligence  
committee Christopher melon and former US 
Army Counter Intelligence special agent and  
Lead investigator of the advanced Aerospace 
threat identification program Luis alzando
[Music]
this is somewhere in the skies with Ryan 
[Music] sprad welcome everyone to a very  
special live stream today of somewhere in the 
skies and I have to personally thank the debrief  
and specifically Chrissy Newton for putting our 
show together today with our amazing guests who  
we will get to in just a second um if you're new 
to the channel we chat all things UFOs in a very  
grounded objective way we bring on people in all 
walks of life to talk about it and uh that's what  
we're going to be doing today after this I would 
say pretty scathing yet very crucial article came  
out at the debrief uh by the author Christopher 
melan of the article who we be talking to today  
as well without wasting any other time I'm going 
to do a little brief intro here of what we're  
going to be talking about so an article came out 
in the debrief yesterday February 3rd about the  
blatant absence of the United States Air Force 
in the UAP issue this is a brief overview of that  
article um that we'll be talking about with our 
special guests today so last June the Director of  
National Intelligence released a public report 
entitled preliminary assessment unidentified  
aerial phenomena the report confirmed that UA UFOs 
or uaps were operating on a reoccurring basis with  
seeming impunity in restricted US military 
airspace the report cited 144 incidents since  
2004 the US Air Force contributed very few if any 
of the 144 reports how is this possible in light  
of the usaf's global responsibility for Aerospace 
defense and its massive Air and Space surveillance  
capabilities the laps in USAF reporting raises 
doubts on The credibility of the Air Force on  
the UAP issue and its responsiveness to civilian 
oversight the author brings forth convincing data  
indicating that the Air Force and its component 
organizations actually detected thousands of UAP  
from 2004 through 2021 so we are going to be 
talking all about this today with Christopher  
melon and Luis elzando little brief intro for 
both of these guys uh Christopher melan is the  
former deputy assistant Secretary of Defense and 
former staff director of the Senate intelligence  
committee and Luis alzando is a former US 
Army Counter Intelligence special agent and  
former director of the advanced Aerospace threat 
identification program but before we bring them  
in I do want to bring in my co-pilot my co-host 
for this episode today and that is Chrissy Newton  
from the debrief Chrissy thank you for joining me 
hi Ryan thank you for having me again like one of  
my favorite podcasts so just happy to be here my 
absolute pleasure again you are the one who put  
this all together today so I have to thank you and 
all the guys over at the debrief for making this  
happen with our guests who we're going to bring in 
right now so welcome to somewhere in the skies we  
have Christopher melon and Louis alzando thank you 
so much for joining me today guys pleas to be here  
my pleasure thank you thank you I mean okay Chris 
so obvious question man this article came out  
yesterday it's it's getting Buzz everywhere in the 
UFO Community outside of the UFO Community I've  
had so many former Air Force people reach out to 
me linking to your article um I know the hill is  
really interested in this as well but um initial 
question for you before we we really get started  
um what prompted you to write this article that 
came out in uh the debrief yesterday well thanks  
for asking I was having trouble sitting still in 
light of what has transpired the last couple of  
years it was really getting under my skin the 
complete disconnect between what Congress had  
asked for and what the Air Force had provided and 
when you read the report it suggests that they may  
even be contemplating uh not filling in that Gap 
but just going forward and saying well we'll do  
kind of a test experiment program for a while 
and see how that goes that you know it's hard  
for me to take off my my uh spectacles from being 
a former Senate staffer I seen the issue largely  
through that vantage point and uh expressing the 
kinds of concerns and perceptions that I would  
have were I still on the staff advising a senator 
or a member of Congress so it just struck me as  
as outrageous actually and I wanted to express 
my my concerns and observations about that yeah  
I mean and again the timing for this article I 
think uh couldn't be better especially since we  
now have several groups within the Pentagon 
and um you know with former representatives  
and current Representatives really getting behind 
the UAP issue and and forcing this topic into the  
mainstream like like never before but um I know 
yesterday on Christy show you talked a little bit  
about these um sens sensory systems that the Air 
Force is privy to and use on a constant basis so  
I I was hoping maybe could you briefly touch on a 
few of these for us and uh why you think the Air  
Force is literally the branch of the military 
that should be taking taking the Reign on this  
entire issue sure well I'll provide a few brief 
examples so there's a system called the space  
fence which is unique to the United States and we 
have two locations one in the northern one in the  
southern hemisphere where this system operates 
and essentially anything in orbit that passes  
through the beams of this system is going to 
be cataloged in high detail and high resolution  
incredibly powerful system in addition we have 
these um solid state phased array Radars that are  
the most powerful emitters on the planet Earth 
that are in locations around the periphery of  
North America to guard us against ICBM and cruise 
missile attacks and and bomber attacks from afar  
they can see in some cases objects potentially uh 
20,000 miles away the size of a baseball so the  
taxpayers money has been invested uh extensively 
to provide these capabilities uh they're obviously  
collecting mountains of data uh every day 247 
365 all year long and it's uh inconceivable  
that with all of that data they're not having 
any uh any incidents involving uh unknown aerial  
phenomenon yeah and again it just it goes to show 
like how much they should be on top of this and  
not only that but reporting something something 
to the Pentagon something to Congress um Lou I  
I'd love to ask your your thoughts on that as well 
um in your time during a tip and and and whatnot  
um were these sensory systems anything that you 
ever looked into with the dod or with the Air  
Force specifically when it came to looking at UAP 
incursions over military uh airspace I guess yeah  
sure sure uh great question and in essence look 
Chris is absolutely right um we spend billions of  
dollars on avoiding any type of strategic surprise 
from uh from an adversary and so what makes our  
capabilities so capable so effective is that we 
don't just rely on one system uh we imagine a uh  
imagine a cloth that has woven fibers U they kind 
of go this way and then some go up and down and  
that's the strength that that that's what provides 
a strength to the fabric and very much the same  
way when we are looking at having what we call for 
example um air domain awareness being being being  
aware of what's actually in our skies we have all 
sorts of very capable systems from electrooptical  
hyperspectral to uh electromagnetic like radar 
and these are capabilities that exists not just  
on the ground but also at Sea also airborne 
and finally spaceborn and so when you when  
you have capabilities that are looking from the 
ground up and from the sea up and from the air  
across and from space down you get a much better 
comprehensive picture of what's going on and and  
that is the value of our of our intelligence 
assets because it's not just one system there  
are multiple systems that are designed in some 
cases some cases to work with each other in other  
cases integrating the systems can be a bit of 
a challenge but that there in lies the utility  
um as far as the Air Force kind of not playing 
much of a role in this if I may remind you in  
your audience just a few months ago the secretary 
of the Air Force said for the record look we know  
these things are are out there we know they're 
they're real these things but since we don't  
know what they are it's not really a priority now 
think about that statement for just a minute I'm  
not trying to beat up on on on secretary Kendall 
I'm just simply saying that that's like saying  
okay A a submarine pops out of the pomac river 
outside of Washington DC and BEC we know it's  
not ours but because we don't know whose it is 
n we're not going to pay attention to it um that  
that really doesn't make much sense and especially 
when you're talking about controll us airspace you  
know there are definitely some no-go fly zones 
that we have and we have them there to because  
of result of of of 911 and so making sure that we 
can maintain air domain awareness is an imperative  
of this country for good or for bad and yet we 
know as a matter of fact these things continue  
to to come in unimpeded into our controlled us 
airspace um and and they're displaying technology  
quite frankly that is is rather perplexing it it 
it's beyond anything that we have in our current  
inventory yeah to toh exemplify what Lou's talking 
about us space surveillance system alone has 29  
distinct components in subsystems so you've got 
a groundbased optical Network that strings the  
world that's looking at the sky and comparing the 
movement against the stars of any anything that is  
reflecting light from the sun for example and then 
imagine 28 other components including satellite  
systems and groundbased Radars and other things 
so it is quite an extensive mesh as Lou said but  
part of the reason that uh in addition to that 
that it seems so uh unconscionable to me that  
the Air Force was not um presenting or sharing any 
cases is some of this stuff is in the newspapers  
I we've got Air Force interceptors taking off from 
from fighter squadrons in Oregon Chasing UFOs that  
commercial airline pilots are reporting to the 
FAA and the faa's got them on radar and we've  
got the the chatter from the pilots on radar 
the Air Force is acknowledging these planes  
were scrambled so how can they not list and 
identify those as instance UAP incidents um  
so it ranges not only from things that may be 
highly classified but things that are already  
very much in the public domain and it's very hard 
for me to understand and reconcile the congress's  
request for information and this seeming uh near 
complete dirth of information provided by the Air  
Force yeah I was going to ask I was going to lead 
if perfectly leads into the question I was going  
to ask then next is about terminology Chris like 
you say that terminology might play a part in the  
reason why the Air Force wasn't handing any 
of the reports over um can you talk a little  
bit about that because maybe that's one of the 
reasons as well if especially if we're seeing  
it in the mainstream well I'd like to share a 
story in that regard and this goes back to the  
days of Project Blue Book and uh there was uh 
some public debate and criticism between uh uh  
the the the main astronomer Chief scientist of 
Project Blue Book Mr heinik and Carl Sean who was  
a Critic of uaps and Carl San said well if there 
were really these these UFOs around certainly  
NORAD would see some of them so Dr hinck went 
to NORAD headquarters with Dr Val got a briefing  
challenged them and it turned out that the Air 
Force while they were saying we have no UFOs they  
were saying oh well we call them ucts uncorrelated 
targets we yeah we do have a lot of those but  
that's not what you asked about so um you know 
people can play semantic games in terms of how  
they characterize things and categorize things 
and uh we know that after 911 for example they  
provided Congress statistics on uh unknowns in the 
atmosphere in North America there were hundreds  
of cases perom they updated that in 2015 and 
provided uh data on that so why is is so hard to  
do that today and and similarly with space-based 
surveillance they acknowledge publicly we have  
thousands of unidentified objects in orbit mostly 
pieces of space debris and junk but again they  
were not forthcoming in terms of trying to provide 
a picture that would help members of Congress  
decide how effective the system is do we have gaps 
do we have problems should we be spending more how  
much of a threat is or that sort of thing they 
the members are sort of being asked to operate  
in a vacuum and I don't think that's acceptable 
that's what always bothers me is the different  
terminology that could be um put in place to Sid 
step this issue and and what can be classified  
what can be unclassified as well and and norat is 
certainly the place that I think a lot of people  
are looking uh the department of energy as well um 
so that kind of leads into my next question Chris  
and for Lou too is um this blanket denial that 
you speak of in the article why aren't policy  
makers and whatnot um you know kind of holding the 
Air Force to the Flames with this thing we we the  
Navy seems to be out front with this and being 
very open in public about it but why do you each  
personally think the Air Force has been so absent 
from this issue and giving what is been asked of  
them from from representatives from Congress from 
the Pentagon um yeah would either of you like  
to touch on that why why is the air force doing 
this I'll be happy to take a initial stab at it  
and you partly seem to be asking why was Congress 
uh seemingly not more outspoken why why were they  
accepting this or allowing this to happen and I 
think the reason is because they were provided  
gross numbers not specific breakdowns as far as I 
know in terms of the service components so I don't  
think initially they realized that out of the 144 
incidents identified that they were essentially  
all Navy and I think had they known that at the 
outset it would have highlighted this Gap and  
this discrepancy and there would have been more 
questions it it's taken a while to process that  
in terms of why that is um this is speculative 
but the the behavior we're observing does suggests  
that there's either uh degree of contempt for 
civilian oversight or there's something that  
they're very concerned about concealing and hiding 
or they're very disorganized or some combination  
of the above I don't know what it is but I don't 
think it serves the uh the public or the service  
well yeah I'll jump on board that too um I've 
got a couple points here that I think for me  
May May resonate um first of all if you look at 
the history of the US Air Force when this topic  
was really being discussed it goes back to to the 
Cold War you had uh there it was a winter takes  
all chess game um for for the globe really and you 
had the United States on one side and then you had  
the then Soviet Union on the other side and we're 
in the midst of of despite what people think it  
being a cold war is actually pretty hot and we had 
a lot of proxy wars going on as a result of that  
um I think when you when presented with with data 
and say look we've got this we've got priorities  
and we can only to handle so many priorities as 
as a a National Defense organization you have this  
real threat where Russia has nukes and we are in 
this winter Winner Takes all mindset um and then  
we've got this other thing out there that we don't 
really understand very well we don't you know we  
don't understand how it works and who's behind it 
but we don't see any really overt hostile intent  
at least not yet so we probably should focus on on 
the real threat that we all agree is there which  
is then Soviet Union also you're talking about um 
things like operation and blue book right where  
you you had this whitewashing of certain data 
um there was a lot of pressure on the Air Force  
at the time to say look these things aren't real 
let's not cause it Panic let's just kind of Tamp  
this down and we can deal with it later perhaps 
um so they've said for the record to the American  
people in the Congress that there's nothing to 
see here folks now we're asking the Air Force to  
come back online and say well actually maybe 
there's something here uh and then of course  
you have um some of the the the efforts by the 
US Air Force in the past on this topic maybe  
they're uncomfortable you know talking about it 
maybe maybe there's some some National Security  
equities involved and last but not least I think 
there may be a generational thing here too um you  
know generation of of you folks you know Chris and 
I being being the exception Our Generation tended  
to be a little bit close-minded unfortunately 
um and it also there was a time where some of  
this would would touch upon um the belief systems 
people you know judeo-christian beliefs uh this  
this may have had some sort of of of conflict 
there personally for some people um we're now  
in a situation where we have a new generation 
of of of young folks Young Americans who are far  
more open-minded um these folks uh have have 
you know really the entire world at their at  
their fingertips and the world now is is all of 
a sudden much much smaller and so I think there's  
potentially a willingness of of this generation 
to take this topic more seriously and and for me I  
think that's um you know that's a good news story 
there's all sorts of reasons why the Air Force may  
not want to have this conversation and it may 
frankly be a combination of all these factors  
and even some that we haven't yet considered um I 
do have have hope faith and confidence that there  
are some people brave men and women in uniform 
right now who are actually in the Air Force who  
are taking this topic seriously I'll share with 
you very quickly something that's frustrating for  
Chriss andine um there was there was an individual 
an officer I won't say who or the rank that was  
reporting information to the to the task force 
and then was uh was was very quickly shut down  
by his uh chain of command saying you will not 
report this information and he was admonished and  
you will not report this information to the chain 
of command you through the through the task force  
chain of command you're going to keep this within 
Air Force channels and that's problematic because  
it really flies in the face of of the intent 
of Congress in my opinion Chris can probably  
elaborate a little bit more on that but that's not 
what Congress wants Congress wants a a a single  
reporting belly button so to speak that all the 
information from all the services can can can get  
looked at and triaged and and analyzed um when the 
services don't work together things things fail  
this is why we had a 911 Commission report because 
certain elements in the intelligence Community  
simply were not sharing information that they 
should have one of probably my favorite quotes  
that Chris has is is talking about comparing the 
US and Russia we won the Cold War not because we  
kept better Secrets but because we learned how to 
move information more efficiently and think about  
that for a moment um this is probably a perfect 
case and point on this topic if we can figure  
out a way to move information more efficiently uh 
and and not keep this you know within the super  
uber highly classified channels that that it once 
was we probably stand a better chance of figuring  
this out a lot quicker I'm gonna move into with 
the question too then we move into leaks are we  
going to see less leaks now because we have 
to report them or the it has to be reported  
now are we going to see less of that I'll jump 
in real quick I I first of all I don't condone  
leaks um and and I I think I can speak for my 
colleague Chris here but I'll let him speak  
for himself um leaks are are are damaging to 
National Security none of us want there to be  
leaks um however what we also don't want is the 
over classification of information AAL Haynes the  
Director of National Intelligence just recently uh 
put out some information that we we are definitely  
hurting National Security by over classifying 
information that's not helpful um information  
that is that is kept classified and out of the 
hands and out away from the eyes of people who  
need it it's is useless you're not doing anything 
with it you're wasting money you're wasting time  
you're wasting resources so um I I I do think more 
information will be forthcoming because what what  
has happened is that Congress has now created a 
reporting mechanism required it in law in fact  
that this information will reported to the right 
people and then in in in turn that information can  
be looked at and then provide it to the American 
people in in in a consumable unclassified manner  
what makes information classified typically is 
something called sources of methods and it's the  
way you collect information and and who collects 
it and how they collect it oftentimes it's not  
the information itself that's classified and and 
so therefore what I what I would propose is that  
whoever leads this effort moving forward really 
needs to remember that and and there is a very  
easy way we do it all the time with the United 
Nations we do it all the time with the American  
people and State of the Union Address where you 
take highly classified data and you you you you  
provide that information to the American people 
in an unclassified manner I don't know Chris what  
do you think the uh unfortunate thing is part 
one of the unfortunate things is that if the  
government if a component of the government is not 
being forthcoming it actually can encourage leaks  
because people want to see the right thing done 
if information is being concealed withheld from  
Congress sometimes the only way some people feel 
they have to to communicate it is to leak it it  
creates more pressure uh increases the likelihood 
of that happening in some cases which as Lou said  
is unfortunate but uh the Air Force to some degree 
is the master of their own fate here and I think  
the more sort of uh responsive they are the less 
likely there there is to to be uh unwanted leaks  
on this score when the uh the defense department 
protects many things very very well as does the  
intelligence Community the black programs that I 
was aware of when I was in the Pentagon I don't  
recall a single one of them leaking they they were 
the idea the US government can't keep secrets is  
is nonsense but when you get into controversial 
issues and bureaucratic power struggles and things  
that aren't really a matter of of sources and 
methods or national security they're just people  
trying to protect it information to protect it to 
prevent embarrassment that sort of thing uh does  
lead to unauthorized uh discussions with the Press 
so you may continue depending how the Air Force  
plays that to see some of those kinds of leaks 
gotcha um I I I'd like to um to rewind for just  
a minute with you guys Chrissy that was a great 
question um this goes back to these joint Airborne  
Navy and Air Force training exercises Chris 
that you bring up in the article and you know  
even covered on unidentified um we heard from 
several members that um the bricks on a Navy  
ship were taken by allegedly uh some sort of body 
of the Air Force um and and you do bring this up  
in the article as a major concern like why were 
they able to just come down on a helicopter and  
like take these things no questions asked so like 
why why are these things being reported by just  
the Navy and then the Air Force is swooping in to 
take any of the data on it I would love for you  
both to comment on that what your thoughts are um 
if they've evolved at all your thoughts on on that  
issue that you guys brought up in your show very 
early on and um yeah anything you want to comment  
on that well let me let me start if I may um I 
don't know for certain that that happened with  
the helicopter I've heard disputes about that from 
different Navy personnel but one thing we do know  
I I believe for certain is that the Princeton 
radar data regardless of whether it was that  
helicopter or something else was last seen in the 
hands of the US Air Force and it remains missing  
so there's a uh there are people in the government 
who would like to get their hands on it people at  
Navy who've been trying to get their hands on it 
they want to analyze it and somehow it doesn't  
seem to be available and that is part of this 
larger pattern Lou talked about of for example  
leading on people who want to share information 
with the UAB task force not being forthcoming  
with with known incidents that have occurred and 
and so forth so there is a bit of a pattern there  
that's that's a little concerning frankly um and 
I think those are all questions that need to be  
pursued vigorously anything to add though yeah you 
know I'll tell you what's equally perplexing the  
question is why so the the deck logs um for the 
Princeton um are available in fact deck logs for  
for ships are available at the National Archives 
um and yet the deck logs for for the the Princeton  
uh for that particular day during the Tic Tac 
encounter are missing um they're gone it's like  
they were never there so so someone is someone 
somewhere is is not comfortable with with this  
conversation occurring um so then one has to ask 
who is it and why what are the equities at stake  
that would get somebody to remove those those deck 
logs um a human being had to have been involved  
to do that so it's not just the tapes missing 
uh or being taken by allegedly by a helicopter  
but there's other bits and pieces of information 
that are just missing and and that's problematic  
because we we have institutions and in a system 
for a reason um because you know people need to  
have faith and confidence in in that system and 
transparency is one of those primary ways that  
we instill faith and confidence into a system or 
organization so um for some reason someone doesn't  
want to be very transparent about this topic um 
or that that particular event so we're forced to  
scratch our heads and say why um you know the 
pilots have already come out I Chris will tell  
you uh Chris was very helpful with this but I I 
I took the pilots and the radar operators to to  
actually brief the secretary staff on this topic 
when I was when I was running atip um and they  
were they were very very compelling um this 
was the eyewitness testimony from the pilots  
themselves and and radar operators who are are 
literally in essence test if Ying so to speak in  
front of DOD uh senior senior staff uh that that 
work directly for the secretary and when you have  
you know organizations within that own system that 
are um obfuscating that that's a problem we have  
a that's that to me is even more dangerous than 
something flying in our controlled us airspace  
it's it's elements within the bureaucracy that are 
not working with other elements or or frankly that  
are just ignoring the will of either Congress or 
the Secretary of Defense Chrissy um do you want to  
take the lead next do you have any uh burning 
questions for the guys before we move on well  
I was just going to ask where do we go from here 
like you know Chris and I in in my interview and  
we and he speaks a little bit in the article about 
Solutions Lou I'd like to hear your Solutions on  
this and like where you feel we can go through 
next so that how we can make reporting better  
and then working with the Air Force a little bit 
better as well Well Chrissy you're doing it you're  
doing exactly what the media should be doing and 
that is reporting relevant information uh to to  
the people um there was a time uh not too long 
ago that the media would have run away from this  
topic um probably with their hands in the air um 
because of the the stigma and taboo that has been  
historically associated with this topic um I think 
that's I think that's changing um you know what  
what can what can we do as an American people I 
think we can encourage our elected officials to  
continue to pursue this topic and let them know 
we want this to be a national priority for us  
uh I think we can encourage the media mainstream 
media to continue to pick up this this this topic  
and talk about this topic um ultimately this 
topic doesn't belong um under the purview of  
any one organization or institution or government 
um it it really belongs to all of us in my opinion  
and therefore we should probably have a group 
conversation so doing exactly what you're doing  
now is what's moving the needle um said it earlier 
you know I I get I get calls from DC Chris will  
tell you the same thing he did he did already we 
get calls and emails from DC all the time with  
articles and links to the debrief so I mean there 
you have it right that that's proof positive that  
that people are paying attention to what you're 
doing and what you're saying and and the material  
you're providing so my I guess my my suggestion 
would be just just keep doing what you're doing  
and and and be be courageous to enough to to 
challenge the system I'm not saying do anything  
illegal what but but we can do there's there's a 
there's a lot we can do under free freedom of the  
press and freedom of speech and whatnot that 
I think is is very helpful here I I think we  
need to continue to have this conversation like 
we see with AB lob in the Galileo project where  
mainstream scientists and academics now can 
start having a conversation about this topic  
without fear of any type of professional 
retribution I think that's that's hugely  
important and last but not least um you know I I 
I think I think we need to have this conversation  
U um openly and and and stop beating around 
the bush um I think transparency is is going  
to be key here if we if we really want to try 
to figure this out that's that's my two cents
anyways hey everyone Ryan sprag here host of 
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up has anyone I know the article's only been out 
for a day and a half but any Air Force reach out  
to you former current present you know future 
saying um thank you thank you or F you like  
what what what has been the reaction and response 
so far for you well let me let me first addressed  
the prior question briefly just to add very 
briefly to what L said and the ball is squarely  
in congress's court it's up to them they have the 
Constitutional responsibility they're the only  
ones who can really compel the defense department 
to take action against their own will on this or  
for the Air Force to be more more forthcoming and 
demand answers but the role of the citizenry and  
the role of the press in stimulating Congress is 
is immense the fact that this gets media coverage  
is largely responsible for the reason that that 
Congress is interested and responsive so as L  
said we we do all have a role to play in this and 
your reporting and coverage and the engagement of  
other people is is an important component of this 
uh in terms of uh have I been contacted uh I've  
received some thus far very positive feedback um 
from from military personnel and that's been a  
a pleasure and also a relief when you come out 
with an article like this and I'm making some  
pretty strong statements here you you worry a 
little bit you know that I miss something am I  
getting something wrong am I going to offend uh 
some of our Personnel for example and thankfully  
that's that's not the case I'm getting a lot of 
Bravo Zulus from Navy folks and uh uh generally  
very positive feedback to date good yeah and 
again I think uh Lou said it so eloquently like we  
in the public are causing Ripple effects with 
all of this I mean I'm sure once the preliminary  
assessment came out they were not expecting 
so much response from independent scientific  
organizations UAP ex or Galileo project or or even 
you know what the James web telescope eventually  
could find these are all Ripple effects 
from the reaction of that transparency that  
hasn't been there for so long and I I think 
it's really exciting to see the future of  
this topic really heading in more of a scientific 
Direction More Than Just political or or even you  
know you know even eup philological whatever 
you would Define that word as um we're now  
looking at this topic as how can it benefit us 
if we were to understand the technology being  
displayed or how could it hurt us I'm excited to 
see where the next couple years go with the Gill  
brand Amendment and and this new Pentagon um 
group coming out um I do want to Circle back  
to one thing Chris in the article as well that 
I love both your thoughts on and that's uh when  
you bring up claims about usaf's possession 
of materials that might definitely answer the  
question of whether non-human civilization has 
found Earth end quote by Christopher melon do you  
think this is the reason one of the reasons 
maybe they're being so quiet I mean anyone  
who knows euphology goes back to Roswell in the 
possible recovery of a Down craft of some sort or  
a top secret military project we don't know we 
probably will never know but um yeah what do  
you make of the whole material discussion in all 
of this Lou do you want to start or you want me
really I you know I I um I've said what 
I what what I could say um so um you  
know probably Chris you may be more eloquent on 
that topic I didn't know about that but I would  
say that one of the points that I'm that I'm 
trying to make in the article in that regard  
is whether or not that is true it shouldn't be 
the Air Force's decision whether civilian policy  
makers are informed or not at the top level um 
today the Director of National Intelligence the  
deputy secretary of defense it's not clear that 
they've gotten much more from the Air Force than  
the task force or Congress have perhaps they have 
but that's not even clear so if nothing else I  
think we can all agree that if the Air Force is 
in position uh possession of information that is  
that radical uh that significant that profound 
at least at a minimum the top civilians in the  
government need to be a witting of that and 
in a position to to be making decisions one  
of the reasons is because now we have the private 
sector and the scientific Community beginning to  
take this seriously so the US government is no 
long longer going to be only or primary source  
of information on this increasingly there's going 
to be credible information coming from the Galileo  
project or the scientific Coalition for ufology 
or people like jacqu fet who just published the  
first peer-reviewed paper on materials associated 
with a UAP incident so uh to the extent that that  
there is um information being concealed along 
these lines um there's competition now that  
the government didn't have before and that's 
something they need to think about as well  
healthy competition is always always a benefit 
for sure um Christy do you have anything I've  
got one more from Lou our producer but um yeah 
hop in if you want well I was just gonna say is  
there any been any recent conversations that 
you've had with the dod or the UAP task force  
about anything data or anything that's going to 
be coming forward in the next little bit that we  
can talk about I I don't have any in indication 
that that new information is going to be coming  
forward anytime soon one of the great things 
about the Gill brand Amendment and this was  
not in the defense authorization bill in either 
house uh prior to the Gill brand amendment is  
that there is now a continued requirement for 
reporting to the public at the unclassified  
level so not later than October 31st we should 
receive another unclassified report available to  
everyone on on what is going on here so that's 
that's terribly terribly important and in fact  
one of the most important uh components of of that 
legislation and that will produce more information  
if we don't get anything before them yeah and 
I mean too I think it's really interesting um  
that once we these reports start coming out to 
the public I know Lou I know your thoughts on  
leaks and I completely understand um but do you 
do either of you personally think we're going  
to see what happened right before that first 
assessment came out we started getting quote  
unquote leaked videos I don't want to get into 
the debate of sources and and um you know stuff  
like that we we could debate that forever but um 
do you guys think we might see this reaction from  
within of some people being like I know they're 
not going to bring this up so here you go um is  
the Deb gonna get that triangle video finally I 
I think the beauty about Congress being involved  
is Congress can do a lot of things that that we 
can't um they have a requirement to represent  
their constituency uh it's an obligation and so 
if they get A draft copy of a report and it's  
not answering scratching their itch so to speak 
answering the questions that they want answered  
then there's a very good chance you're going to 
see them go public with with their concern um as  
we've seen in the past right there's been some 
outspoken spoken folks on the hill uh whether  
it's Marco Rubio or Tim bashed or Jill brand and 
and and ggos Warner everybody else um you know  
they're not they're not afraid to speak their mind 
uh and and and communicate with their constituents  
and say hey look you know this is this is what's 
going well and this is what's not going well and  
I think we can expect that you know they they they 
are they seem to be committed to transparency on  
this topic which should be applauded um and I 
congrat congratulate them for for doing that as  
far as you're talking about triangle videos and 
other leaks you know Chris said absolutely right  
when people feel and I think one of actually one 
of your audience kind of wrote this in in a tweet  
as well uh in a message that when people lose 
faith and confidence in the system and they feel  
like they've got nowhere to go then that's when 
you start seeing the leaks when you start seeing  
people getting frustrated because the system 
isn't working um and again I don't necessarily  
condone that but but that seems to be kind of 
the kind of the trend so if if the Department  
of Defense and the intelligence Community don't 
want any more leaks then I my suggestion would be  
them to be more transparent be as transparent 
as possible on this topic that's fair ech that  
there's a uh almost unprecedented deficit of trust 
in the American government right now generally RIT  
large on any topic uh then when we talk about 
the Air Force in this issue if anything it's  
only worse the skepticism is pervasive so it's 
an opportunity for the Air Force to try to to  
set the record straight and turn things around 
and thus far unfortunately they've been doing  
uh just the opposite they've been circling the 
wagons uh not sharing information even with other  
components of the defense department even with the 
deputy secretary's own task force so to me that's  
that's outrageous and that's that's what prompted 
me to write the article um if the deputy secretary  
himself cannot get straight answers after months 
and months we live in an information age where  
you can ask syi a question and get an answer in 
seconds we've invested billions and billions to  
try to integrate our information systems to 
produce quick answers for decision makers for  
policy makers and here we have a whole team set up 
that is dispatched to go out and get information  
about this topic and put it together for the top 
leaders of the defense department and they're  
getting Stonewall I mean to me that is outrageous 
I'm sorry that but that's why I I felt I needed  
speak out and say something so what then what 
happens with if this keeps going on if they  
keep stonewalling and then other departments 
keep stonewalling too what will be the outcome  
of it what's the cause and effect this this really 
comes down to to the Congress and what their their  
temperature level is what they're willing to put 
up with if they if they don't want to challenge  
this and no the seniors in the department want 
to challenge this then it'll it'll continue as  
is until something else develops something new 
happens that changes the the mix but I don't  
think that's going to prove to be the case I think 
that there are enough members now who understand  
that they can talk about this publicly it's not 
only okay it's important it's a flight safety  
issue it's a national security issue uh and an 
urgent one and so I think they're going to demand  
answers and I think they will be forthcoming and I 
think 2022 could be uh another transformative year  
another year of great strides forward in in better 
understanding what the uh what's really happening  
out there and Chris if I can jump in real quick my 
my concern right now uh with with where we are in  
this conversation is that it's U there's a bit of 
a a precariousness right now urgency and part of  
that is because as a nation we're dealing with 
a lot of issues right we're still in the heels  
of covid uh which has been a huge social stress 
for our nation there's uh Financial uncertainty  
uh within the markets sometimes there's issues 
that we're dealing every crisis doour whether  
there's a border issue uh or there is issues in 
the creman peninsula right now and Ukraine or  
South China Sea and Taiwan I mean there's there's 
we're dealing with a lot as a people we're dealing  
with a lot uh and and so is Congress and we need 
to be understanding that that Congress only has  
so much bandwidth and and we're going to have 
to be patient with them um I I I I remain very  
optimistic and hopeful that Congress will will 
continue to take this topic very seriously and  
I'm hopeful that the executive branch will do what 
is supposed to do to the letter of the law uh in  
response to Congress but ultimately it's up to us 
to make sure that this topic remains a priority  
um we need to remind Congress that this is a topic 
that should be one of our priorities as we handle  
all these other issues uh we need to remind the 
media that that they need to continue reporting  
on this topic so so we don't lose the bubble right 
we don't lose the site picture and so that would  
be my my recommendation I agree wholeheartedly 
with Chris's assessment that fy22 calendar year  
22 um could be a banner year for this discussion 
um but you know we can't just sit idly back and  
expect good things to happen without a little bit 
of encouragement I mean it's it still takes all of  
us all of you to engage uh as you have been doing 
and and keeping this topic um front and center  
so that's that would be my advice and you know 
what I appreciate too Chris in the article you  
even used some of the research by uh civilian UFO 
researchers I I know you know with the nored stuff  
that you discovered and whatnot um these have 
been out there for years but nobody's been paying  
attention and and I think it's really exciting 
to know that yes we do still have a place in this  
and yes you know we do pay taxes in order to um 
you know fund these sorts of things that should  
be a protecting us and B being transparent with 
us about how they're protecting us and whatnot  
um to a certain extent to an a certain extent um 
but I do want to ask both your thoughts on this  
um and a lot of people have asked this since you 
know even the first um sort of murmurs of a task  
force came about is why 2004 why why aren't we 
going back to other Declassified sensory systems  
um I I know in your article I mean you went back 
man to um to cases involving nuclear installations  
or icbms and and whatnot um why is it because 
they're trying to be proactive and start clean and  
move forward or why are they not using any of the 
data that could be out there from from previous  
uh collections of these uaps if if that's clear 
I'll I'll speculate I'll off a theory and that is  
that they couldn't ignore the nimit incident the 
nimit case and had received so much press and so  
much discussion and that was 2004 and so I think 
they chose that date and decided to work from from  
that date forward to the present that would be my 
guess prior to that time there's a a long interum  
there between the end of Project Blue Book and 
and something that's really in the public domain  
that's well substantiated but I don't know for 
certain that's that's a guess on my part I think  
you know look my my background uh has been that of 
of of Special Agent in Counter Intelligence so we  
look at things in terms of think of of cases right 
um and when you go back Beyond 2004 they tend to  
be in terms of of what we call a Cold Case right 
cold cases are usually harder to solve because as  
time goes on um you you lose Fidelity of of of the 
information and and that's very true when you're  
looking at historical events uh that are still 
very interesting and intriguing and important  
um you know going back to the 50s and 60s we did 
not have the collection capabilities that we have  
now U we just didn't have it we had radar we had 
things like that but but we we did not have the  
level of sophistication and Fidelity that we have 
now um and awareness so that may be part of it um  
I also think maybe could be uh to some degree the 
attention span you know when I was briefing senior  
leaders in the Pentagon you know if I were to 
bring back something that happened in 1960s or 70s  
they probably at that point be like Lou I'm not 
interested in that I'm interested in now because  
this is my job now I don't care what happened 10 
20 30 years ago I care about what's happening now  
and what's going to happen tomorrow so from that 
perspective you know the the I think the the nimit  
incident is recent enough where and there's enough 
information there that provides a very compelling  
case um and uh that would be you know perhaps 
a more from an operational perspective why we  
don't go back too far in history as some of these 
cases um I personally think they're valuable I I  
think they're very it's very helpful to look at 
because as we've seen with the Tic Tac event and  
the nimit in the 60s they referred to them as a 
flying white throat lozenge about 40 feet and in  
the 50s they described him as a white flying 
butane tank um seems like the same topic you  
know same same object to me right uh doing the 
same things um so you know there you have it I  
I think I think historical know is important 
um but at the same time is it as relevant as  
recent information to a decision maker probably 
not when when Chris was at the Pentagon or when  
he was on the hill if my job was to brief him um 
I would probably focus more on the the the current  
events than some of the past stuff because really 
that's his Focus he he needs to make a decision  
and I need to give him information so he can make 
a well-informed decision and and it's hard to do  
that with some of the older cases well we're we're 
sort of wrapping things up here guys but um I just  
kind of want to open it up to both of you um in 
terms of I guess uh Chris we'll start with you of  
what we've discussed today um is there anything 
in the article that you really want to get out  
there or you found most compelling that we haven't 
discussed yet I loved the um you know the little  
personal bit about you talking to someone in 
the Air Force about things they'd seen or had um  
tried to report but couldn't um but yeah is there 
anything we haven't discussed yet that you really  
want to get across to uh to the reader and to 
the public at large well thanks for providing  
that opportunity and the opportunity today I 
think the key points are this is very real this  
is no longer just a matter of Hollywood movies 
or science fiction uh just the other day the  
United Arab Emirates was was hit uh by an attack 
from from houthi rebels in men who have are very  
unsophisticated technologically but they were able 
to inflict damage across the Arabian Peninsula  
earlier they took 50% of Saudi oil refining 
capacity offline with drones uh we're now  
having things soring around Navy ships that we're 
not quite sure what to do with or where they're  
from that's happening at Air Force bases uh for 
example in Guang around criticals military systems  
uh where the report identifi they said in most 
instances is the reports that came forth 144 were  
because these objects were interrupting military 
training exercises or plans okay and that's just  
the the nub that's just the ones that that came 
forward so this is a real issue there's serious  
data the report mentions 11 near midair collisions 
uh you know another legitimate issue and again  
there are many reports that were not in there we 
know from Canada of another case so I think that  
thing I'm trying to convey is very important very 
significant lots of important unasked questions  
I listed a number of the questions there that I 
hope members of Congress will will make some use  
of and uh I think if they do we can make some 
Headway and depending on the answers there may  
be ultimately some very surprising answers and 
although this can be sometimes a frightening  
subject the answers that are produced could have 
a very positive effect depending what they are  
and they could be very very profound but I think 
we have to follow the trail wherever it leads I  
think that's our destiny that's what we have 
to do Lou anything to add to that um should  
we be seeking positive answers or I know in the 
past you've said um some of those answers might  
be pretty somber might really make us reflect on 
who we are where we've been where we're going um  
yeah what did you pull or extrapolate from Chris's 
article that you think is preent and really needs  
to get out there right now TR truth be told all of 
it everything he said needs to be out and uh you  
know it's it's a very dense piece because this is 
a very complex issue we're dealing with there's a  
lot of moving parts to this a lot of interests and 
considerations and um you know Chris's assessment  
on the on the S on the sit current situation I 
couldn't agree more with I think he's absolutely  
right but I will also give one word of advice 
to anybody who is trying to to figure this this  
incredible Enigma out um the greatest challenge 
I think we're going to face is going to be our  
own psyche um we look at everything um anthrop 
anthropomorphically uh where we um we tend to  
assign human attributes to everything including 
our pets right at home right you're such a good  
little boy such a you know cute girl um that's 
how we kind of treat our animals and and we look  
in terms of that way but we have to also be 
prepared to to look at things um perhaps even  
more abstractly perhaps that our our current 
understanding of the universe is is is really  
in reality the universe is far more complex and 
it may not be an either or scenario my greatest  
fear is you know when push comes to shove if if 
contact were to happen tomorrow um will we stand  
there with a with a a hand extended or or point 
a machine gun um and and that's kind of the way  
we we look at terms very binary right it's either 
Friend or Foe and and and nature in life is far  
more complicated than that the chances are of it 
being just friendly or a foe um may may be minimal  
it may be somewhere in the middle right and so we 
need we need to make sure that that we we provide  
relevant information to our senior leaders and 
decision makers and policy makers of our country  
so they can make a well-informed decision that's 
ultimately what what needs to happen and they  
can't make a well-informed decision if information 
is being hidden from them that for me is the  
greatest danger they you know let let the chips 
fall where they fall provide the information  
necessary so our our leaders can make make a good 
decision whatever that decision winds up being you  
know if if you if you keep information this was my 
frustration with the Department of Defense because  
I wasn't being permitted to get the one guy who 
needed the information the information was getting  
to and that to me is is is problematic so um that 
would be that would be my that'd be my perspective  
anyways I'd love to ask personal question Lou if 
you don't mind before we we um we wrap things up  
here um where where are you now with your your 
um run-ins with the Dodd and and the Pentagon and  
everything that you had issues with with them um 
any developments on that that you can updat with  
or you just still fighting the good fight with 
them you know I I'm going to let the Department of  
Defense speak for the self um you know there's 
a lot of good people in the department there  
really are and I think there's more good people 
in Department than bad a lot more thank goodness  
uh and I have full faith and confidence uh in in 
their abilities to to have this conversation and  
it's happening right now behind the scenes every 
day um you have intelligence analysts on on these  
specific enclaves electronic enclaves analyzing 
data and information you have discussions  
occurring at the senior executive and and and uh 
flag officer level and now at the political level  
so so the conversation's occurring I um you know 
I I I hope that those elements in the Department  
of Defense that have have said things that aren't 
accurate are are held accountable but at the end  
of the day I I'm less worried about that and if if 
the cost of of someone coming out and apologizing  
to me is this topic um you know loses any type of 
of uh momentum I'd rather choose the topic Chris  
and I are committed very much to this to this 
subject more so than we are committed to our own  
self and self-preservation um it's important that 
this conversation occur so I know I'm probably  
beating around the bush but I'll uh I'll leave it 
at that Chris I'd like to add something here um  
in terms of lose situations as you brought it up 
um I've never uh directed anyone on a podcast my  
website but I did write something about lose sit 
situation on my website that people might find of  
Interest called why hasn't DOD offered Lou's old 
job back and uh I expressed a lot of concern and  
frustration that somebody who is following the 
advice were always given you know be independent  
be willing to Buck the crowd think outside 
the box so here's a guy who does that and is  
trying to warn the system you know there's there's 
barbarians inside the gate or somebody is and he's  
trying to ring the sound the alarm and instead 
you know they're they kind of shun him because  
of alleged minor bureaucratic uh infractions or 
something when everything he said has been proven  
correct and he did what they're always telling you 
to do so uh I I'm confident that ultimately this  
will be resolved favorably for Lou and uh I have 
a few words about that on my website Chris r.net  
if if uh people who are interested in that topic 
might might want to pursue might want to take a  
look at thank you thanks Chris um Well Chrissy 
any last questions for the gentlemen before we  
let them go and we uh we debrief here no that's 
it on my end I just want to say thank you guys a  
great conversation um Chris can you tell us where 
we can obviously your website but I know you're on  
Twitter as well and um yeah what what comes next 
man what what are you working on I know that's the  
first question once an article comes out what's 
next it just took me a year toite this one yeah  
what comes next for you man where can we find what 
you're up to yeah I don't have anything uh in the  
pipeline right now but what I'm concentrated 
on is is trying to uh collaborate with other  
parties who are interested in this Ry from the 
Galileo project to friends at DOD or on the  
hill and elsewhere and uh try to be of assistance 
where I can awesome Lou how about you man I know  
you been you do a lot behind the scenes too what 
comes next and where can we find what you're up  
got a lot of irons in the fire you know um some 
of them are not quite yet to the point where I  
feel comfortable talking about them um because 
uh you know they're a little bit sensitive um  
and requires other people to do certain things 
as well um so I'll I'll keep those right now  
close to my chest but know that um we are working 
very very hard behind the scenes um I'll be in DC  
next week um you know that's not a coincidence um 
we're working you know we don't just go and and  
and hang out at the at the local bars there on 
Capitol Hill we we we spend a great deal of our  
time working this topic and only this topic so um 
you know there you have it that's fair man I mean  
if there's anything I've learned from talking to 
you and Chris it's uh there are no coincidences  
so um I look forward to whatever comes next for 
both of you I want to thank everyone for your  
your questions and everything like I mentioned we 
didn't have time today but hopefully these guys  
will be able to answer some of them on Twitter 
for you or maybe we'll have them back in the  
future to discuss some of those um but other than 
that we're just going to have some debrief time  
here gentlemen so I'm gonna let um Mr alzando and 
Mr melon go but I want to wish you both the best  
with everything moving forward Chris I I can't 
wait to see the reactions from within and on the  
outside on this one and um we needed this because 
a lot of people in this field are pissed off that  
the one branch of the military that should 
be talking isn't and that comes on the cusp  
of another you know branch of the military just 
starting up now that could become a big player in  
this as well and that's the space force so again 
the future is uncertain but um it's bright with  
with everything you guys have brought forward so 
with that I want to thank both of you today for  
coming on somewhere in the skies thanks for having 
us appreciate it my pleasure and honor as always  
guys thank you so much for doing this see in DC 
next week L indeed see oh there you go told you no  
coincidences thank you guys appreciate your time 
have a good rest of your day good to see you both
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