YouTube Channel: "Julian Dorey"
Video Title: "UFO Crash Retrievals, Lockheed Alien Experiments & Remote Viewing | Luis Elizondo - 237"

UFO Crash Retrievals, Lockheed Alien Experiments & Remote Viewing | Luis Elizondo • 237
948,503 views  Sep 19, 2024

Luis "Lue" Elizondo is the former head of the Pentagon’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which investigated UFOs, now referred to as Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP). A veteran of the U.S. Army, he has worked in counterintelligence and counterterrorism worldwide. His new book, "Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs," is available now

From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv8NVtNbZ5U

Transcript:

have you stood in front of a recovered
UFO I am uh I have had in my possession
material that was allegedly recovered
from a UFO it was very I cannot say
former Pentagon and intelligence
official Lou alesandro L alzando L
alzando I was told several years ago
that I could never talk about crash
retrievals or material ever people are
wildly fascinated to hear from someone
who was apparently inside the Pentagon
looking at the most mysterious thing
that exists in our world now are there
people out there in the government that
know more probably they're out there man
there's there things that are going on
that yeah that's that's not our
technology it could be like some sort of
scop ooh this could cause ontological
shock or an existential crisis if we
just dump this on people you're talking
about a conspiracy on a level you would
have to keep a long running secret and
you'd have to back stop it for years
beforehand like decades you allegedly
left the Pentagon in 2017 do you guys
ever really leave come on
what's up guys if you haven't already
please smash that subscribe button and
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below how's it feel to have the number
one book in the United States of
America wow what a great first
question just just throw me into the
deep end right just there you go
dude um you know in I don't think about
it is't that terrible I I I not at all I
I don't because it must be nice having
the feds help get you all the way to the
top of the list huh yeah if that was
only the case if that were true I'd
probably be be a senator um you know I I
I I wrote that book for a very specific
reason um I I never expected it to even
be successful um I wrote it because I
wanted people to know know the truth
about what was going on in the
government and how their tax dollars
were being spent and at the end of the
day I wanted it to be a record um you
know people write books for different
reasons and for
me written word unlike spoken word is
indelible what do I mean by that it's
it's forever and I've said before this
is why the Egyptians wrote the Book of
the Dead on Papyrus it's the reason why
the Magna Carta was written on parchment
it's the reason why our Declaration of
Independence was written down because
written word outs survives those who
wrote it right it's it's becomes a
permanent record and then when it goes
to the Pentagon for a security review
right now I know for the first time I am
actually allowed to talk about this I
won't I won't get in trouble because
I've said something that's either
classified or something like that and so
that was really my motivation to write
the book in the first place whether it
sold one copy or million copies I I
never paid attention that wasn't my
motivation and so I I purposely tried to
avoid looking at at statistics how good
something is doing or how bad something
is doing um it was no diff you know I'll
share something with you actually um I
don't think I've shared this
before so um some time ago I had a
little TV show and we were doing on
History Channel with some other folks
and um I
remember the pull that mic in a little
bit I'm sorry I remember the producer
coming to me and she was really really
excited she's like oh my gosh we just
got green lit you know it's fantastic
and I said oh that's great and she said
well aren't you aren't you excited I
said well do you know do you know when
you obviously show got green Li but do
you know the very first moment when a
show's about to be K when the show's
going to get canceled she said no she
got like really almost like concerned
like how do you know a show is going to
be canceled I said the very day it's
green lit because no show lasts forever
so yes in some cases it's celebrating a
marriage but it's also awake because at
some point every show comes to an end
yes and so I don't allow myself
to if you will Revel in the moment
because it's kind of for me a little bit
of a distraction from what my my my core
mission is
um so I know it's probably not a
satisfying answer no it's perfectly fine
it's it's it's interesting talking to
someone while they're in the middle of
that like this book obviously has been
out now over the last month it's taken
off because people are wildly fascinated
to hear from someone who was apparently
inside the Pentagon looking at the most
mysterious thing that exists in our
world allegedly right so we're going to
get into all that today there's there's
first of all your book's very very good
and there's a lot of different details
you delved into there and I'd love to
get through some of those stories and
break them down but I think one of the
things that gets a little lost with you
in the years I've seen you on the
internet is the fact that long before 20
8 2009 when you got to atip and started
working on UAP you you had 11 12 years
or something like that before that where
you were in the Army and then
specifically within like Army
intelligence and doing some pretty
badass around the world I was actually
only uniform for a very short period of
time before I got recruited into into
another program um I it was right after
college and I did spend some time in
uniform uh I was a lower enlisted grunt
um I actually explained it in in in my
book the reason why I could have come in
as a army officer in with my medical
background and my degrees I could have
been in the Army Medical Corp but you
know my father when I was a kid used to
always tell me you know You' always call
me Chino Chino uh my father being Cuban
uh used to always tell you Chino um you
know in order for a leader to be a good
leader they must first what knows know
what it means to follow right know what
it's like and so that stuck with me and
I also wanted to have freedom to do the
job I wanted to do I didn't want to be
stuck looking at more Petri dishes or
you know mending broken arms so I went
into the army as a lower enlisted guy U
purposely um and um was there for a
short period of time uh Military
Intelligence did some some support to
Special Operations uh spent some time in
Korea um very interesting wonderful time
to be there actually there was a lot of
stuff going on North Korea was always
being provocative and you had uh
students and riots going on and
uh back in the mid 90s and then came
back to the United States and did some
more investigations conas and then I I
went into the civilian side where uh
initially I I spent some time in Latin
America down in uh in year banama gosh
1990 8 to 99 and then 99 I was in the
Caribbean
um and then uh came back for a short
stint conus and then what happened is at
9/11 happened and uh we had just my wife
had just given birth to our our second
daughter um she was born very premature
my wife had all sorts of medical
complications she had a thing called
preclampsia and help syndrome H PP I
believe uh and so my daughter was born
very premature after a month or so in
the Nick unit tubes sticking out of her
body and was awful um we brought her
home and she was at the time the small
baby ever ever released from the
hospital I think she came home at either
3 lb or 2.9 lb like like know look at my
hands I got sausage fingers and you know
my hands look like a they've been
through a meat cleaver and here's this
tiny little fragile life that's been
popped into my hand and said okay here
you go take care of it I mean what I
mean she her vocal cords weren't even
developed so when she cried you couldn't
hear
her uh my God what a what an incredible
experience that was so anyways 911
happened
and uh a few months after we brought her
home and I W up going um over to
Afghanistan Kandahar right uh Kandahar
yeah that's right Kandahar we were the
first really the first group group of
folks over there uh spent some time
there and then long story short we got
involved in the Iraq stuff spent some
time in the Middle East and then finally
my wife came to me U and she said
look you got to stop going on these
deployments you got to you got to find
another job here you either got to get
promoted or do something because you're
not going to make it back home real
quickly you had said you went into the
civilian side this before 911 or
whatever for people out there can you
just explain what that means yeah sure
so the intelligence Community um has a
requirement to have people operators
that work collection operations but also
have military experience right because a
lot of people think the CIA is sitting
you know some Embassy somewhere you know
James Bond and having cocktails and they
do well some of them do yeah some of the
lucky guys uh but then you've got um you
know the other folks that are doing
ground ground collection um human
operations and Counter Intelligence
operations and investigations and they
they're on the ground a lot of these
folks have military backgrounds um for
example I don't know if you're probably
way too young to remember this but in
the beginning of Afghanistan we lost a
couple really good folks one of them was
a gentleman named Michael span Michael
span was a CIA officer who uh who died
in in combat over there um anyways long
story short there's a requirement to
have uh military people um or formerly
trained military people and they kind of
transition into these these
more tactical roles and so U did that
for a while and finally my wife was like
look you know I I don't like you're
doing this so from there I took a uh a
promotion and I came uh back conus W up
going to DC where I actually went
Washington DC actually just true just
south of DC it was uh at Fort belor um
where I was running rather than doing
investigations I was supervising
investigations so uh you know you get
promoted yourself to the desk and you
Trad in your gun and you're you know you
you traded for a for a pen now you worry
about desk poops yeah ex exactly and
worried about budgets and you know
Inspector General investigations and the
lawyers you know coming down and you why
are you opening this investigation
without blah blah blah blah uh and then
from there I went to um back up to DC
worked with several different
intelligence agencies um some with DOD
some outside of DOD uh and then um in
200 Maybe seven I'd have to see seven or
eight seven um I went from the national
Counter Intelligence executive which is
where I was working there uh at NCIX and
I went to the Director of National
Intelligence the dni actually it's odni
Office of the Director of National
Intelligence and then the director's
called the dni is that under DIA
officially no no they are the they are
the top dog so let me great so great
question if you don't mind let me
digress because I think this is
important after n so the the real cause
of 911 of course we know it's terrorists
doing bad things but that was a result
that wasn't the cause the cause was
there was Intelligence failure within
our country oh yeah you had pockets of
information that were held at the CIA
pockets of information at the FBI and
pockets of information at the Department
of Defense and we weren't sharing that
information so after 911 there was a
commission 9911 commission that realized
basically what the failures were so they
created a new position that fell
directly under the president and it was
called the um intelligence reform
terrorism prevention Act of 2004 irtpa
2004 that created a a national level
Bubba a guy a gal a point of contact
that is the director of the National
Intelligence and says you will now
manage and coordinate all intelligence
across US Government so basically even
the director of the CIA even the
director of Dia NGA nro everybody L doy
you are all responsible to that guy or
that gal whoever that is and so they
created that position the first one was
a gentleman named John negroponte John
negroponte was a uh he was a a
politician then I guess you became a
diplomat for a while an ambassador and
then became the first dni then you had
some guys like McConnell and Blair that
filled those were the times that I that
I worked at dni this show is sponsored
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hp.com Julian and then uh I was also
living as we had discussed prior uh I I
decided to raise my family on an island
in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay
because DC was just not for me not a
great place to raise two girls young
girls I feel you there you know so I
beautiful area by the way the Chesapeake
down there it is gorgeous you know and
so we've always been on the water um you
know maybe because I'm Cuban right we
love the water uh but uh surrounded by
Cuban I know man hey you know what can I
say you know um but I grew up near the
water a lot and uh that was part of my
life and I wanted my girls to to kind of
share in that experience and not worry
about crime and the hustle and bustle
and sirens and horns and traffic and you
know I wanted them to have normal life
ride your bicycle in the neighborhood
not worry about you know being run over
or something worse oh yeah it's so quiet
like my my aunt used to have a place in
Tilman Island down there yeah tman
beautiful yeah so you get it right St
Michaels I mean it's it's it's come if
you got to work in DC and don't want to
live in DC that's where you want to live
how far is that though from that ah so
now you're getting to my point why okay
so it's almost as if I gave you a script
or something you're you're so that's
precisely the issue quality of life is
fantastic
but the commute out to past Langley
which is where I was at past there was a
3-hour oneway commute oneway 3 hours so
I was and if there was any traffic like
dude I am I'm literally in the car
longer than I am at work and I'm at work
8 to 10 hours right so Z zero quality of
life I'd come home I I I cram some
frozen food down my throat and I go to
bed and I wake up and wash rinse repeat
all over again so my quality life was
terrible my kids had a great upbringing
and my wife had a great life out there
but my life
pretty much sucked and so I had an offer
in 2008 late 2008 to come back to the
Pentagon for a bit and establish a
information sharing relationship between
n still part of the 911 Commission hey
we're not sharing enough information so
now that we're getting FBI CIA and DOD
to share information and whatnot we're
still not getting that information down
to those who need it like the cops on
the ground right those folks who don't
necessarily have a national security
clearance but they also have a need to
know because if you want to stop and
prevent terrorism or anything else you
got to ultimately that information
is useless unless it gets to the right
people so I was brought in to work with
DHS to try to figure out a way where we
can take National level intelligence
information and get it disseminated down
in a way that
didn't that was still effect effective
and useful but didn't
compromise National level secrets
because these guys didn't have a lot of
these guys and gals at the local level
didn't have security clearances so you
can't share with them a secret document
because they don't have a secret
security clearance so how do you do it
well long story short I I'll I'll spare
you the details but you do it through
terar lines and you do it through
certain capabilities on automation that
can strip out certain sources and
methods information and still get most
of the information that's needed down to
the level so that's what I was brought
there to do uh and then it was um as you
said correctly um soon right soon after
that uh is when I got exposed to the
government's UAP program UFO program
okay and this is I believe Jim ly
correct Dr lki yeah so um this is and
this is what I I try to explain to
people if you want to want to know a
little bit about Jim he is the epitome
of a rocket scientist literally a rocket
scientist and in fact if you were to ask
me in my opinion probably the world's
Premier rocket scientist certainly one
of the best in the US government has
ever had this is a guy that can tell you
the burn rate of a first stage solid
rocket motor booster he can tell you the
trajectory and re-entry speed of a MV uh
Warhead coming in from low earth orbit I
mean this guy is amazing and so uh I
didn't know at the time but when I when
I finally met him um you know he he
actually looked like I hate to say
typical rocket scientist but he had the
glasses and you know the nice tie a
little bit crooked and the hair he was
more interested in doing the work than
he was in his own appearance right
because he's a rocket scienti he's got a
real job to do uh and I remember him uh
asking me a very blunt question uh at
the end of our our first discussion
together and uh he said to me he said uh
what do you think about UF
and this just came out of the blue I
mean where was I wasn't even even I'm
like what and so I thought let me get my
join out please yeah right I'm like is
this uh is this a trick question like a
psychological evow uh and so um I
answered him truthfully I said I don't
and so he he kind of looked at me and he
said what do you mean you do you not
believe in UFOs and I said no I didn't
say that you asked me what do I think of
UFOs and they said I don't think about
UFOs because frankly I don't have the
luxury to I'm too busy you ever thought
about it before like on your own time no
I was never into like a science fiction
kid I wasn't into Star Trek or Star Wars
or anything like that I may have seen an
episode coming home from school once
because someone had on the TV but I
couldn't tell you anything about the
story lines or anything like that I
wasn't I wasn't overly interested in
that stuff I was more of a more of a GI
Joe
kit and um yeah so long story short uh
he said to me after that he said look I
just want to warn you don't let your
your your personal or analytic bias get
the best of you because what you might
learn May challenge any preconceived
notions or narratives that you have on
the topic and I I found that very
peculiar and and and realized very soon
after that what he was saying was 100%
legitimate why was he meeting with you
and where was he meeting with you like
what was the pretext here because
obviously he dumps it on you in the
meeting like hey what do you think of
UFOs but that's not that wasn't what was
what was on the schu there right so what
earlier on I had several meetings with
some people that were part of his
program they had blue we call them blue
Badgers is what I had is a member you're
a member of the intelligence community
so that means you have the top secret
seci security clearance you can get into
any any building you need to so these
folks had the ne requisite clearances
and they were telling me that they have
this program that's very sensitive they
need some Counter Intelligence support
um which is my background um I I
initially thought it was because of my
background in advanced Aerospace
Technologies I had spent an earlier part
of my career doing technology protection
for high energy lasers unman AO vehicle
vehicles um tomaha Cru missiles Apache
longbo avionics you know some Advanced
space based systems um only later did I
learn that they just needed a really
good Counter Intelligence guy and
security guy for this program they were
worried in essence in the vacular they
worried if the Russians or the Chinese
you know were trying to penetrate the
program so um that's what I initially
thought that this was it's just another
special access program another sensitive
program in the US government you know
not not really that uncommon and they
just needed some EX expertise to to help
them out was this first meeting in a
skiff yeah in my building yeah yeah in
my building so here here's the problem
when I when I wrote the book I actually
put those details in there unfortunately
the government redacted them so I'm not
allowed to to say the specific location
because were sensitive buildings uh but
they were in the NCR national capital
region um they were I can say very very
close to Washington DC downtown I can't
say anything more than that um so a
rundown townhouse that's a safe house
really masquerading for the CIA
basically
look you you can fill in the blanks as
you want I I personally I'm going be
filling them in all day I don't look
good in an orange jumpsuit so I'm going
to I'm going to mind mind my manners
here um and so uh yeah I went to I went
to his location after they came to my
location several times I went I went to
his location uh again another
undisclosed location in the DC area um
looked like a normal building it was not
and uh visit him I think it was on the
10th floor 10th or 10th floor all right
that narrow is it down un ly star
Googling I know someone's going to be
out there right now looking for all
buildings that at least have that it's
got to be this
one um so uh so yeah so I met him this
place and then uh the rest as you say is
is is history I guess yeah and and this
whole concept of a skiff though this
[ __ ] is so cool to me like cuz you talk
about it so nonchalantly because you're
doing all the a lot of these meetings in
in these places but essentially these
are like they're like container ships
that are like blocked out from the world
so that nothing no type of like counter
Intel can get in there or something like
do we just have Skiffs like sitting in
the middle of the hallways in the
Pentagon like how this how does this
work we do so think look think of this
room that we're in here as a skiff right
it's it's designed to
be sound efficient meaning that we can
have a conversation like this and you're
not going to get any outside noise from
outside well a skiff is kind of the same
way but in Reverse um we don't want the
noise in here being heard out there so
you build a room that has been
accredited to be a sensitive uh
compartmented information facility um
SCI facility so you have three levels of
of classified information you have
confidential you have secret and then
you have top secret so think of like a
rainbow while at that top tier of top
secret there's several categories within
that that top secret so you have top
secret SEI sap caps and some other
things and so a skiff like you're
showing up there yeah we have it on the
screen right is a and that skiff there
is actually a tactical type skiff so
that's a mobile skiff so they're built
in a container as you see there um they
are soundproof they're also RF proof
radio frequency proof so you can't Eaves
drop into a conversation um and those
are those are portable ones now not all
skips are portable right that that is
that's really something that was built
uh for the initially for the Special
Operations Community during right after
911 and you could put them on a boat put
them on a plane and you could drop it
off anywhere in the world and you could
do what you needed to do yeah look at
the soundboards in there too with Obama
well and there's also white noise makers
I don't know if you know what that is no
so uh a white noise maker and you
probably pull that up it creates a level
a baseline level of Ambient sound to
restrict people from if they do happen
to hear as a glimpse of a conversation
it confus them so those are those are
are uh white noise makers and you'll see
those in the skips and then you have
shielding um because bad guys are really
good e dropping and there's all sorts of
ways to do it um another one is to coat
if you most gifts don't have Windows but
those that do have special coating on
the glass because if you know what
you're doing and I'll be careful what I
say here um there's technology out there
where you can allow the vibration of
class and you know translate it into
voice and sound and pick up on someone's
conversation so there there are these
things that that um people do um in in
the world of Espionage to try to collect
information another very interesting
program which I I can talk about now
it's unclassified type in the word
Tempest and look at what Tempest means
from a uh from a uh secure
Communications and it will pull up um
type it yeah Tempest secure
communication there you go perfect okay
andas can we click that first one Al
yeah go ahead l so basically everything
electronic gives off emanations right
cameras this microphone everything
computer monitor and so it's possible if
you know the frequency of the
oscillations of of certain things in
again I would careful of certain
electronic equipment I can see what's on
your monitor your computer screen
without ever looking at your computer
screen and so you want to you want to
prevent that by by having your
conversations and having your equipment
in these Skiffs so the bad guys can't
can't collect information so skips are
really really common they have to be
accredited periodically but really it's
nothing more than than a room like this
on steroids I mean you're kind of like
in a skiff yourself except for it's the
opposite you're trying to limit noise
from the outside coming in or the skiff
is trying to limit noise from the inside
going out but you're telling me in like
20072 2008 this was standard technology
we had oh absolutely it's older that
brother it goes back to the 70s man are
you kidding me that's what I'm saying I
feel like darp is 50 years ahead man
yeah that's crazy so you're doing all
these initial meeting where you're
getting read in with like the Jim lais
obviously all everything in a skiff
everything in a skiff yeah you basically
you go into a building go through a door
that's got a bunch of security codes
then someone goes and says okay let me
see your identification okay you're good
yep you got the blue badge which means
you have commen amount and then if you
go into certain like a sapf facility so
if you think of skiff is something try
getting into a sap F facility that's
like a vault within a vault within a
vault right and that's that is obscene
level of security requirements um and uh
yeah yeah and so I had I I worked out of
one of those um they could kill you in
there no one would ever know it oh or
here yeah I mean it's hermetically
sealed in fact some of these are have uh
well I I better not say but how often
does that happen where they whag someone
in
there well I mean I wouldn't be able to
tell you would
I it's not a denial to be clear just
that for the record truth be told um
those are for for our guys we use we use
sap fs and we use
um SKS for our own people we don't we
don't you typically unless you have a
security clearance you're not getting
into a skiff I mean you you there's some
exceptions to that if you know you're
being escorted and whatnot but for the
most part you don't get into a sapf
unless you're redon and you don't get
into a skiff unless You' got at least
tssci U for the most part got it so I I
think one of the things often gets mixed
up online when people are looking at the
alleged history here of like the program
is the whole all saap and a tip thing
it's like eventually it was known as a
we'll get into that whole acronym and
whatever soon but when you're getting
read in on this and then I guess within
a few meetings brought in as the counter
Intel guy my understanding is that this
was when at the time Senator Harry Reid
who was a major Senator and at one point
the majority and minority leader in the
Senate had basically started this thing
called assap and was saying we need to
look into not just our history with with
UAP but we need to look into what this
is from a national security threat
perspective at the time was it already
funded though like like was was this
something that the rest of the other
people in the Senate were read into or
was this strictly like some kind of
offshoot Harry Reids talking with you
know people in the Pentagon and they're
doing this private team that no one
knows about so great question let me
wewi the tape here a little bit and see
if I can help do a level set on this
first of all it wasn't necessarily just
a Harry Reed thing a lot of people think
oh it's Harry Reed Pet Project no it
wasn't okay there was two other Senators
that were involved you had Senator Ted
Stevens from Alaska uh who was also a
military veteran and you also had
Senator Inu from Hawaii so he was
bipartisan both Republican and Democrat
love that yep absolutely right and these
were senior dudes and who literally all
were veterans and in some cases
literally gave their right arm for for
their country right um Stevens himself
had his own UFO sighting his own UAP
sighting while he was flying a mission
then you also had Astronaut John Glenn
at the time who was also part of this
effort trying to push forward um now the
impetus to that is still up for debate I
can't tell you in the early days of AAP
because I wasn't there I know there was
a lot of people that say a lot of things
what I can tell you personally because
because Harry Reid told me before he
died when it we'd see him periodically
in Vegas and whatnot unfortunately um he
passed away as everybody knows but um
all right P yep absolutely rest in peace
um he did some very good stuff for this
country politics aside he did some very
he was a
patriot um so long story short uh he
told me um that he had at one point when
he was a senate majority leader he had
been accidentally and I say accidentally
you know quote because that's what he
said to me that he was read on to the
UAP program and then very quickly they
came back I think it was maybe the next
couple days or a week later and he said
Hey listen we need you to sign this
document we accidentally read you onto
something you shouldn't know about and
he was in sense he saywhat do you mean
I'm not signing anything I I'm I'm the
Senate Majority Leader I should be read
onto every program that's part of my job
as the oversight I'm part of the gang uh
that is responsible for all intelligence
operation they said no you're we're
reading you off administratively meaning
we're not we're not going to even talk
about this with you and so he indicated
to me that he was really really upset
and and this is how he started getting
very vocal and about his concern that
certain elements in the US government
were hiding the truth about about UFO
about UAP
and so uh again I I can't tell you what
he did other than with assap because I
wasn't their Fort I can tell you what he
told me and and there's other
individuals I can probably tell you
earlier on like James lat or even even
uh Jay Stratton will probably tell you
more about the ASAP how it started so
ASAP was a contract vehicle that looked
at UAP but also looked at other stuff
contract vehicle yeah contract vehicle
is a mechanism by which the US
government funds projects right so you
have a contract because most people
think oh the government does all the
work they don't they contract out they
they subcontract oh yeah and so this is
now we're getting into the good stuff so
this is where Bigalow uh Aerospace gets
involved um he bids on the contract by
the way people think oh was a sweetheart
deal no it wasn't in fact he was the
only one to bet on the contract he had
the expertise and the capabilities to do
it his staff and OB by the way he funded
a lot of this stuff himself out of his
own you're talking about Robert piga
correct so people give him a lot of crap
not realizing that the guy really is a
patriot he's done some incredible stuff
for this country out of his own out of
his own pocket so anyways long story
short um the contract gets awarded and
they start ASAP and ASAP is also looking
at other things like for example the
Skinwalker Ranch again things that I
wasn't really involved in my focus
really was more and initially Counter
Intelligence security then it became
when a tip became a tip itself and the
assap program kind of faded off when was
that 2012 2013 so the contract for oap
ended in 2012 I believe it went from 8 9
10 11 12 so 5 years and it it petered
out we had requested another $10 million
for fy13 and fy14 funds we did it under
what we call year fiscal year right FY
which is different than you government
guys got all these goddamn terms and
[ __ ] I know man it's it's an entire
Forest of acronyms and I know I know
it's it's his own language if you ever
if you ever want to have a secret
language conversation with somebody just
talking government speak no one know
what the hell you're talking about E4 E5
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in the description below so anyway it's
long story short um the atip piece was
really more focused on nuts and bolts so
we were looking at military encounters
aircraft encounters Navy ship encounters
with UAP and things that we were picking
up not just uh with gun camera footage
and Fleer footage pod footage things
that we could also cooporate with radar
data hard data right and also Witnesses
like the F-18 fighter pilots um that
were coming up close in some cases very
up close and personal to these things so
you had several issues going on and so
the a tip program was initially you know
some people depending who you talk to
and what day of the week it is they'll
tell you a slight variation of it I
can't tell you really much about ASAP
because that wasn't my focus I I can
tell you about my involvement with atip
um from my understanding from my
observations because ATP became a very
legitimate program and and to still
recognize how you can talk to Harry Reed
and other folks are like it was real you
know I don't have to tell you I know put
it in memo yeah I mean it's it's a real
that's what peace stands for a program
now it may have started off in the early
days before I came on board as a
nickname or whatever it is I don't doubt
that but it was a real real program um
towards certainly from
201 10 onwards um and as all saap faded
away a tip kind of contracted um meaning
it we we really we limited the number of
contractors that were involved there
were really only maybe five or six
contractors we kept on board from like
the loeds and the Norths and stuff like
that I mean contract people I I don't
want to say their names right now
because I don't have permission to say
their names oh you're oh you're
referring more on an individual
individual basis yeah so like a Bigalow
but again I'm not putting names in your
mouth I'm just saying yeah something
like that uh where we had certain people
um that had a a deep amount of expertise
that was really really what we consider
low density in the US government but the
people who are involved with AAP when
you come into it and a tip on the inside
of the government it seems like that
group is kind of the same it is
transitioned it's exactly my point well
you just that's what I was trying to
allude to just now without saying
people's names so a lot of the the core
expertise that were in ASAP came over to
a and stayed with us right but there was
also a lot that like ASAP I think with
Bigalow and the contract had like I
think the ini list was like hund and
some people by the time we were really
focus focusing on the E tip piece we had
really very very few contractors most of
the folks were government people at the
Pentagon or at strategic command or
within other agencies and it was it was
it was not focused on the Skinwalker
Ranch stuff after certainly after 2012
when the contract died we were we were
focusing only on Military incur
incursions into military controlled
Aerospace uh oversensitive military
installations um in and around our our
ships and stuff like that so and you
know it's convoluted so it's totally
understandable when people I mean first
of all the government's already
complicated let alone you know the
nuances the eaches of each um so it it I
totally totally get it and I think even
even some assap and a tip guys might
even be kind of confused because some of
them weren't there for every meeting
right some of them weren't necessarily
brought into everything we were doing so
including you technically sure
absolutely yeah sure yeah so yeah cuz I
I try to simplify these things and make
it easier from a 30,000 ft view
essentially it's not like you're walking
into places and there's a giant sign on
the door welcome to the atip meeting
welcome to the AAP meaning it's like get
in the [ __ ] skiff and let's talk
about this right well look here's a
perfect example you you you and your
producer right you guys work on this
project together you're in a lot of the
same interviews together and yet he
might go out get a cup of coffee you
might go out and get a sandwich and you
now get involved in a different
conversation with somebody else out on
the street and you come back you know
but you're not necessarily going to
share every little Nuance of hey I went
to get a Frappuccino and I ran into Bill
and he told me his dog needs to be
walked and just got shots at the vet you
know it's not that's not realistic you
know but essentially to keep it simple
maybe the focus of the exact types of
events you're looking for or or context
of UAP technically like has a shift or
whatever between ASAP and ATP at the end
of the day you guys are a group of
government individuals who are read in
on serious secret [ __ ] that even people
above you technically in rank don't know
that is corre and you are you are
evaluating the National Security
implications of UAP which is the term
you guys I guess were coming up with
back then correct and there's reasons
for that you know people say well you
why didn't you just say UFOs stigma well
that's one that's one but also the fact
is it's not even accurate right so when
the word UFO started getting used back I
guess 50s and 60s um what does UFO mean
unidentified flying object well what's
flying well flying is let's say this is
a plane right there's four fundamental
forces you have thrust lift drag and
weight and when you understand that you
create wings and wings create lift and
then you fly that's what flight is it's
it's lift these things don't have wings
they don't have ruter they don't have
control surfaces they don't have aons
they don't even have cockpits sometimes
so they're not really flying they're in
there they're in the sky but they're not
really flying in a conventional sense
and also we see them underwater oh and
also might see them in low earth orbit
so you don't fly underwater right so you
you do other things underw but that's
not actually technically flying so there
were several reasons first of all stigma
taboo with the UFO term but also it
wasn't accurate and then it became
unidentified aerial phenomenon and then
it got changed to what unidentified
anomalous phenomenon because we're now
we're talking multiple domains we're
talking multiple environments that we
are we are encountering these these
things in and
so I think part of the effort was just
to make the term more accurate yes
remove the stigma and taboo Associated
but at the same time be more precise in
our in our in our verbiage yeah so when
you first like agree to be brought in on
this though you've had a few
conversations obviously you can't go
home and have pillow talk with your wife
about this stuff this is this is pure
intelligence so you are you're walking
out of Skiffs and you're living with the
information unable to speak with anyone
about it and like you said in the first
meeting when lki asks you have you
thought about UFOs and you're like no
well now suddenly you're thinking about
UFOs uaps right do you have a moment
where I don't know if it's like you
laugh to yourself like is this really my
life like are we doing this or you're
like holy [ __ ] like this stuff's real
and I didn't like was there this reality
moment where you're just sitting outside
and looking into the looking into the
sky going oh my God like what am I
getting myself into here yeah so there's
typically two in my experience and I
can't speak for other people I've
noticed two types of people how they how
they deal with this information first of
all when you have a security clearance
and you're read on to a lot of programs
it's it's really hard to be surprised
because you learn a lot of things and
you kind of start getting I want to say
numb but used to the idea that you're
going to learn a lot of things that most
Americans are never going to know about
till the day they die um and so it's not
really that big of a deal this is a
little different because you've been
told for so long that it's BS right now
it's like well okay wait a minute so the
two types of people I've noticed there's
this group of people that have this aha
revelatory moment and I've seen it when
I've been briefing them even at the
Pentagon it's like oh my God it hits
them like a ton of bricks like you mean
they're real like this is real like no
kidding this isn't a joke and it's this
this kind of this um revelatory moment
where where it's like an epiphany right
and then there's the other group of
people which I probably fall under uh
which is more of a slow and steady
gradual realization that we're dealing
with
something that's certainly not
conventional it's definitely not our
technology and there's a really high
likelihood it's not adversarial
technology and um that's been my
experience and that's that that's the
way I I came to terms with this it
wasn't this you know I left the meeting
all of a sudden we're talking about
aliens you know we talking about UFOs
that wasn't the case for to me it was
always well could this be adversarial
technology could this be Russian could
this be Chinese right is there some sort
of and as you continue to go down and
and you start getting more and more
details and facts you start realizing
okay well it's definitely not Russian
could it be Chinese well let's let's
let's see what the red Force
Technologies are right let's see what
their capabilities are because it's not
just technology like hey I see this
thing flying as this Chinese it's okay
what does it take for this thing to do
what it's doing right and do they have
that technology to do it it's not just
simple as saying oh yeah that that's
clearly Russian or Chinese because it's
it's not just the object it's it's the
signature of the object and I got to be
careful not to go into a lot of detail
on that because signature sometimes
signature information is more important
than than identifying the object itself
because you can recognize performance
characteristics through data collection
that you can't necessarily get visually
or optically and so can you explain that
a little more yeah sure uh I I don't
look good in an orange jumpsuit so let
me explain this uh I'm testing your
physics here yeah I was on the phone
with Jack sarfati last night he's like
ask him some Physics questions he thinks
he's a physicist oh I'm not a physicist
at all no no i' I'm definitely not a
physicist not even close um so a
signature is kind of like um a boat in
the water right we so here in this your
wonderful Studio you've got the water
nearby and you see the boats going by um
signature data is looking at not
necessarily the boat but the type of
wake the boat makes in the water the
sound the boat makes right the
perturbance in the water and if you look
at the back of the Wake does it have two
streams or one stream I can tell you if
it has two engines or one engine right
um for example look at a plane flying up
ahead you can tell the difference
between a small Jet and a big jet
because usually you have more engines on
a big Jet right you can see the
contrails so separate contrails from
each engine also there's an acoustic
signature right is it a military combat
plane that's breaking the sound barrier
because you would hear that that's a
signature right or is it sounding like
just a regular passenger jet at 35,000
ft so so signature data can tell you a
lot about things that the looking at the
object hand they can tell you velocity
and trajectory they can tell you all
sorts of extra details that the physical
object itself can't tell you so
signature data is very very important
okay so does that make sense I try to
get another example if you need me to no
I I I I think that's pretty good the
thing with you is that if we get stuck
on so many rabbit holes we're going to
be here for like 36 straight
hours I know there's so much here but
when you you're asking me about
intelligence right so it's it's it's a
it's a lifelong journey oh my God yeah
yeah and and it's like you know you
don't at the beginning you don't know
the scope of it at all you you just
realize okay we are all right I'm being
told that there's some real [ __ ] out
there that we can't really identify so
yes that's a meaning of life crisis
potentially but you don't know how much
what the volume is how how many of these
allege sightings are even real and then
you start getting pulled on or pulled
into the actual intelligence and in your
book the description of the colares
meeting feels like a [ __ ] Team
America Meetup because you get pulled
into this skiff with Legends of the game
how put off jacqu valet Eric Davis I
think was in there well that was
actually a dinner that was not a in a
ski believe it or not it was a it was
not in a skiff negative no it was
actually you're just sitting in an Olive
Garden talking about this well not an
Olive Garden but but no and it was it
was it was the room had been you know
fairly secured okay uh but we weren't
sharing uh us Secrets it was somebody
else a foreign National that was sharing
their their experiences with us so
technically it's not classified right um
it's it's just just them telling us
classification classified information
only applies to information that is US
government derived
that's class nice little loop around
right here well you know like I said
there's there's ways to have
conversations you know and then there's
right ways to have conversations and
then there's definitely ways not to have
conversation but it seems like between
the the Cadre of incredible individuals
that you had in this room that you're
like
whoa in between I think Bigalow was in
there too in between that and what you
were hearing from in this case Brazilian
counterparts about what happened in
Karis this was a huge moment for you
where you're like
wo so would you mind just explaining
what when this case was and what
allegedly happened and what you were
told in that meeting yeah and and let me
you know put this out bluntly I'm not an
expert in the kis investigation I wasn't
there for the investigation I was there
for the for one of the you know if you
will the debriefings so to speak um from
this from this General
General um it's in a nutshell without
going too far down the rabbit hole um
Brazil had been experiencing some UAP
issues and in some cases these U UAP or
UFO encounters were were disruptive to
the local population and so there is a
area in brail called kadis where uh
these incidents became so prevalent that
the U the Brazilian government became
involved and they sent one of their top
generals uh you know to go I hate to say
it but to go knock heads right because
when things get really out of hand he
sent in the military um they wanted to
get control of the situation see what's
really going on is this just BS or
whatnot so they sent in their military
and their military and they sent in
doctors and other investigators and um
the result of which was yeah that these
guys were actually some of the Brazilian
soldiers were injured by by UAP um and
had experienced in the things themselves
and so it wasn't just like going sending
the military to debrief a bunch of
civilians they were having experiences
as well and some of these individuals
were being injured yeah what do we when
you say injuries what was the scope and
and what was the evidence they showed
you there sure well it seemed to be
primarily the injuries were like some
sort of directed energy think of like a
laser or perhaps a burn where you have a
superficial burn some folks reported uh
other um other issues uh possibly
consistent with directed energy more
internal organ damage um and then some
people had some terrifying experiences
as reported by them uh in some cases uh
not just being terrified but potentially
even being being pursued by these by
these UFOs by these UAP which is by the
way fundamentally different than a lot
of the experiences that people people
may report here in the United States you
know people here tend to to tend to feel
they're a little bit more benign well
down there they definitely had the
impression these things were were were
not benevolent they were malevolent now
I also want to draw a distinction here
um it is possible it is certainly
possible that some of these injuries
were not deliberate right they're just a
a simple process of the technology so
what I always say is look when you go to
an airport and you jump
737 there's no real threat but if you go
on the tarmac onto the runway right of
that and you go behind the jet engine
while it's spooling up you're now going
to yeah there's a threat right it's not
intentional but you're going to get
burned you're probably going to lose
your hearing and maybe even worse it's
just it's just a product of the
technology it's a part of the propulsion
it doesn't mean to hurt you it's just
you got too close to it when it was
spooling up so that is also part of the
calculus that we try to look at say okay
was this in I know you might that it was
intentional but was really intentional
right if I again go on the road here and
I stay on the middle of the road I'm
probably going to get run over by a car
right that intentional probably not but
you know I'm at the wrong place at the
wrong time so those are some of the
other considerations as well I always
try to keep an open mind um the folks at
ATP always tried to keep a very open
mind um we actually approach
investigations with the exact opposite
approach that people think they came in
oh you guys were trying to investigate
UFOs no we actually worked our butts off
off to find prosaic explanation first
because praic explanation praic meaning
um a normal explanation right so oh what
you're seeing there is actually the
contrail of a cruise missile that was
being test fired over Vandenberg at this
particular date at this particular time
that's not a UFO or what you're looking
at is a uh those lights on the horizon
are actually on the Mast of a sailboat
It's Over the Horizon but you can see
the Mast because it's it's a little bit
higher and that's a navigational light
you're seeing or an anchor light or oh
actually what you're seeing is so we
went into looking an incidence with
prosaic explanations trying to say okay
this is pro more than likely something
that is just being misidentified the
problem is and this is why the five
observables were so helpful because once
you lay that data over the five
observables and they start fitting into
those categories now you've got
something that is outside the normal
parameters of something conventional can
you define the five observables for
people yeah sure um the first one is you
want me to go into a little detail of
each as well okay so the first
observable is instantaneous acceleration
so what is instantaneous acceleration uh
well acceleration uh is a a change in
velocity so if I'm driving 50 m hour and
I kick up the gas to 100 milph I am
changing my velocity how quickly I
achieve that speed there are inertial
forces inertial forces that are
experienced and we we we call those
forces we equate to them on a scale
called a G Force 1 G is the effect of
Earth's gravity on us 9.8 m/s per second
per second squared because of the mass
of the Earth we all experience gravity
relatively equal and so uh if in
comparison if I do a high G maneuver in
a combat aircraft that's about up to a
9g which is a lot nine times the force
of gravity so now your head goes from
being 14 lbs to now you know almost 100
lbs plus right so and that's your whole
body so now you you're you you weigh
over a th000 pounds when you're pulling
these maneuvers we wear gits to negate
that effect and the human being can
withstand about 9 G forces for a short
period of time before you start having
medical consequences and ultimately
death right you have blackouts and red
outs and and you die to compare that to
our technology we have one of our most
highly maneuverable man aircraft Mann
aircraft it's an old aircraft but it's
still one of the most highly
maneuverable is the General Dynamics
F16 the F-16 uh at the unclassified
level can pull about 17 G's before you
start having structural failure meaning
Wings begin to snap off and that's the
F-16 right there right the Falcon um
highly maneuverable um now we have other
vehicles that are unmanned that can you
know perform much more than that but but
that is that's pretty much the
limitations of of a man vehicle okay
what we are seeing are objects that are
performing at 2,000 3,000 4,000 G forces
right so well beyond the healthy
limitations of anything biological to
withstand and certainly well well beyond
anything from a Material Science
perspective so that's that's that's
that's observable one the second
observable is Hypersonic velocity now
what is Hypersonic velocity it is five
technically it's five times the speed of
sound so speed of sound Mach 1 is
roughly 760 some miles hour at sea level
um so you're you're you're booking right
multiply that by five and you're you're
put that in comparison an average uh
commercial jet fly is about 550 M hour
if you're lucky with you know with the
good Tailwind um now do we have aircraft
that can do that we do we have for
example the locki yf12a SR71 aka the
Blackbird it can fly about Mach 5 you
can but when it wants to do a right-and
turn it takes roughly half the state of
Ohio to do it right these things are not
flying at 3,200 x m hour some of these
UAP are flying at 10,000 14,000 miles an
hour and they're doing it in a low low
earth atmosphere environment where that
the the the co the friction coefficient
is is really really high and they're not
taking a you know a slow steady turn
they're doing instant 180s 90 degree
turns so you have to scratch your head
and say well who has that technology
right so the third observable it's a bit
of an oxymoron um it's called it's low
observability meaning it's hard to see
with a naked eye you see something but
it doesn't look like anything you've
ever seen before it's hard to explain
even on radar data it's coming back the
the radar is suggesting there's some
sort of jamming potentially going on or
some sort of spoofing going on on the on
the radar systems and then the fourth
and by the way do we have low
observability yeah we do we've got we've
got aircraft that are super sleek and
and they're hard to see we have stealth
bombers right like the B2 bomber and the
valkyrie that we have to lower the
cross-section just a little bit so we
can sneak in under the radar um these
things are different we're not talking
about stealth technology we're talking
about something fundamentally different
and then the the fourth observable is
something called trans medium travel yes
forgive me so what is trans medium
traveler it is the ability to operate in
multiple domains what's a domain it's an
environment um so we are seeing these
things operating in lower atmosphere
underwater in the air do we have transm
medium technology we do look we've had
them for for decades look at a sea plane
perfect example a sea plane can fly in
the air and it can float on the water
but let's face it a SE plane is neither
a really good plane or a really good
boat because it's a compromise and so
the more environments you want to
compromise and perform in the more of a
sacrifice there is to Performance and
design it's the reason why the space
shuttle came in and glided down like a
brick it wasn't a very good plane
because it was compromised because it
spent a lot of its time up in space so
it's hard to make a it's just why it's
the reason why a submarine looks like a
submarine and a jet looks like a jet
because they spend most of their time in
that one environment right if you want
an object to operate in multiple
environments there's more sacrifices to
your design and your performance
capabilities that's just the way it is
we're not seeing that with these UAP
they are able without having to change
their performance or their their design
they can operate seemingly and
seamlessly both in air and underwater
and possibly even outer space so we're
talking about a something that's really
beyond what we currently have in our
inventory and then the last observable
which is a terrible word in in the
science Community which is anti-gravity
yeah but it's not
anti-gravity in the literal sense it's
it's simply the ability to defy the
effects of Earth's gravity without the
associated Technologies so we talked a
bit earlier about flight right with
wings so there's really only three ways
we know how to fly right now and how we
can defy Earth's gravity one is through
flight itself we just talked about that
the other way is through um buoyancy so
think think of a hot air balloon think
of a helium balloon where you have a
cavity and inside that cavity it's less
dense than outside and so it will rise
till it reaches its equilibrium right
that's that's how hot air balloons work
and and myar balloons and things like
that and then the other way is uh simple
physics um Force equals mass times
acceleration um put enough energy behind
something and it will go it's called
ballistics right to think of an ICBM an
intercontinental ballistic missile where
you put enough thrust behind it and you
can have it literally counter the
effects of Earth's gravity take thing
same thing as a baseball take a baseball
throw it in the air that's that's that
is that is ballistic if you will um
energy you're putting energy into
something uh Newton's law of gravity for
every action there's an equal opposite
reaction and it goes and it moves for a
little while um we're not seeing that
these things don't have any obvious
signs of lift they don't have any
obvious signs of propulsion they don't
seem to have a cavity in there for
buoyancy and yet somehow they are able
to defy the natural effects of Earth's
gravity so now when you have an object
that you've detected on radar that you
have electrooptical data that the pilots
are reporting and they're fitting into
these categories right now you realize
okay this isn't a drone this isn't a
quadcopter this isn't a balloon this
isn't you know you're dealing with a
fundamentally different type of
technology and that's that's when ATP
really gets involved that's when it's
like okay we're dealing with something I
mean could it be a red Force technology
it might but if it is we're in a lot of
trouble because we've been seeing these
things for a very long time over our
controlled us airspace over our
sensitive military installations um and
so it's obviously from that perspective
we it is a national security issue for
sure 100% yeah now we got into this
tangent that was a great explanation by
the way but we got into this talking
about it in relation to the Karis
incident so what what about that
incident and maybe some more details of
of exactly what happened would help here
but what about that incident made how
put off and Jack and these guys go yes
matches all the observables we think
this one's real you'd have to ask them I
I think it was the evidence um and the
testimony if you will by by uchoa and
military personnel that reported to him
um it was very well documented so you
know you may consider Karis as almost a
the Roswell of Brazil um it was they had
a lot of Manpower behind this and you
know Ooa was a was a serious dude he
wasn't you know just some guy who
Flights of Fancy he was fourstar General
in Brazil in Brazil yeah um so you know
you you have to look at it from from
that perspective um you know they
they're not amateurs by by any stretch
so I think that probably is one of the
reasons why that but you know that's
that's just one example that's just an
incident that's you know it's at the end
of the day it was very interesting to me
I don't know how valuable it was didn't
it didn't change anything for me it
didn't change my view or my I you know
I've always told people my background um
I went to to college to study science I
I studied microbiology immunology and
and parasitology not parasoy
parasitology the study of parasites
microorganisms and then later in my
career I was an investigator um special
agent so you know I was always consider
myself just the fax man kind of guy um
I'm not really interested in Inu windows
and supposition I just just give me the
data and we'll we'll let the data speed
pick the wrong field for that boy ain't
that the truth brother man you ain't
kidding um yeah don't I know
um so again we we tried to approach the
UAP topic the same as we did anything
else right whether you're you're you're
hunting terrorists or spies or you
hunting UFOs um there's there's an
applied methodology when you're looking
at these things it's not just you know
Grandma saw some lights in the backyard
I mean this is we're well beyond that
we're using really sophisticated
capabilities um you know you've got some
of the best trained individuals like on
the Spy one radar people don't neize
this but the the the radar operator on
the USS Princeton was also Top Gun
trained people think oh only fighter
pilots go to Top Gun no they don't the
radar operators can also go to Top Gun
and they are there to support these guys
who are flying combat missions these
guys and gals um and so uh I remember
Kevin Day actually saying explaining one
time that it was it was for days it was
raining UFOs at the Spy onead so what is
the Spy radar so um let's say this is a
radar so the radar were really invented
towards the end of World War II they
were used to try to identify uh enemy
aircraft that were coming in Over the
Horizon before you could hear them
before you see them you want to know
that they're coming so you don't get
surprise um but radar data back then and
Radars were very primitive they
basically sent out a signal and that
signal bounced off an object and returns
back to to uh to to the radar
array The Radars we have now The
multi-array Radars are kind of like um a
super type of of radar where you have
rather than just just one radar you've
got multiple Radars all in different
slightly different frequencies so you
can get really good pinpoint Fidelity on
what you're trying to track okay and
also you can also send these signals way
far you can you can adjust you know you
got to be a little careful with this but
there it's it's a lot more it's a lot
smarter technology so you get a lot more
Fidelity and in this case the Spy one
raidar as you see radar as you see up
here uh in on the Princeton this could
pick up a baseball at 80,000 F feet now
think about that 80,000 ft right that's
that's look if if you ain't breathing up
there no you're you're you're talking
about probably 17 miles away yeah and
you're tracking with an electronic piece
of equipment a baseball I mean that
that's and it could probably even do
more than that but that's that's what
that's what they claim um and then you
have Airborne radar right you have like
for example the E2 Hawkeye which is a a
radar platform flying radar platform if
you pull a picture up of a E2 Hawkeye I
can explain that for you a little bit
too because it's important because these
are the radar systems that were being
used and are used even today to to
prosecute combat missions so this is an
E2 Hawkeye um and you can see that big
big dish on the top and that's that's a
radar that's a radar all it is is a
flying radar uh and you can dial in and
tune into you know with a great deal of
fidelity objects and it gives you this
um air air control and Supremacy in the
sky when you're flying combat Mission so
you've got cabbas radar and Airborne
radar and some landbased radar all
detecting the same thing while at the
same time you have gun camera footage
while at the same time maybe Fleer pod
footage while at the same time you have
you have Pilots that are also actually
seeing this thing so let's let's count
these up for a second right so you've
got maybe five or six sources of
information different collection
capabilities all reporting the same
event at the same time
at the same place under the same
circumstance right so if this was a
court of law always I told people look
we're Beyond Reasonable Doubt I mean
this is this is the same equipment we
use to you know put Warheads on
foreheads and it works so you know
you're you're questioning it now when
we've been using it for for decades and
and it works so this is why I think you
know if a tip contributed anything it it
it contributed a level of rigor behind
the UAP topic from a national security
issue and I want to be clear because a
lot of people say you know fearmongering
it's a na it's a national security
threat I never said it was a threat said
it's an issue because we don't know if
it's a threat in in government parlament
there's there's it it's a very easy it's
a very simple calculus to determine if
something is a threat there's only two
pieces it's capabilities versus intent
now we've seen some of the capabilities
we have no idea the intent so it's
impossible to say it's a threat and so
one of the examples I I use a lot of
times um and uh I don't mean it to scare
people but this is kind of how how I see
the issue from a national security issue
um you know you you live in a beautiful
area here uh I won't say where uh but
people know it's h to school do do you
lock your front door at night before you
go to bed [ __ ] yeah yeah me too me too
you know probably most Americans even
though you don't expect anything bad to
happen probably a good idea to lock your
door before you go to bed Y and some
folks may even go the step forward uh
step further they might just check their
Windows to make sure they're locked
especially if they live on a lower floor
and and they might even turn their alarm
system on before they go to bed let's
say one Sunday morning you walk
downstairs to have a nice hot cup of
coffee or tea and as you walk downstairs
you see size 11 muddy bootprints in your
living room carpet that were not there
the night before now no one's been hurt
nothing's out of place nothing's been
stolen but despite you locking the door
that night before and checking the
windows and turning on your alarm system
there are now bootprints in your living
room carpet that were not there the
night before my question to you is is
that a threat and so my response is it
could be if it wanted to be so we should
probably figure out how the hell they
getting into the house it's the same
thing with this we've got we have these
these technologies that are being
deployed over our controlled us airspace
over our most sensitive military
installations and quite possibly that
potentially interfere with our nuclear
equities is that a problem well if these
things had a Russian star on the tail or
a North Korean tail number You' damn
right you you be on the front page
newspaper right you were saying people
inside the Pentagon though were kind of
like when you when you literally
couldn't say it it had a sticker of
another country on there they're like ah
what are we worried about anyway right
like so it's almost like they needed The
Branding to car that happened in in 2022
on ABC Secretary of the Air Force
Kendall said yeah we know they're there
but you know this not really a priority
right now we we don't know what we don't
know where they're from there not a
priority does that drive you nuts well
listen let me ask you this if a sub were
to pop out of the pomac and it be some
sort of ballistic submarine that doesn't
have a flag on it would that be concern
to you yeah absolutely right I mean what
what do you mean it's not a concern
because we don't know what that's insane
you know how that is the that's the
antithesis that's the opposite of
National Security yes that is most
important because until you know who
that is it can be a problem and so yeah
it drives me crazy because you know
people say well we have other priorities
what other prity do you have than that
there's a technology that can come in
unimpeded anytime anywhere and there's
not a damn thing you can do about it but
because you can't explain it you don't
want to have the conversation um I hate
to tell you this but that's a problem
you yeah now you talk about there being
three possibilities though with these
things that they're benevolent
benevolent or they're neutral
right I think I think one thing that's
that's an interesting point to get into
with this is is the nuclear history
because you just brought it up yourself
so so let's go there when I look at the
different sightings that have largely
happened not just in America but in
other places around the world where
these UAP are identified at at often
military bases where there are nuclear
weapons or on tankers like the USS
Roosevelt or something like that where
there are nuclear weapons present
carrier carrier carrier I'm sorry so
when I when I see that I say that cuz my
Navy buddies would be telling me you
correct him yeah listen I'm from Jersey
don't take it personally but you know
when when I see these patterns and I see
that despite as having this technology
since the Manhattan Project in the 1940s
the fact that since Hiroshima and
Nagasaki no nuclear bombs have been
detonated in a Warf footing type
scenario meaning they've been detonated
in tests around the world and stuff so
they've been allowed to happen when I
see that and I hear stories like these
things are [ __ ] with our nuclear
reactors and telling us like no no no no
like the old Bob Salis story it's like
they're taking matches out of a hand
hands of a baby it almost seems like
they're watching us like a god a little
bit if this is the case to make sure we
don't destroy ourselves so I interviewed
a number of eyewitnesses regarding that
aspect of the phenomenon and that is
particularly during the Cold War the
height of the Cold War they are
witnessed in Russia and all scattered
across the United States and this launch
control officer Robert Salas I'll never
forget this he said well James the
message I got when they shut our nukes
off it's almost like they were taking
matches out of the hands of a
[Music]
baby you know I tend to think that these
it's almost like whoever they are be we
can get into this later be they future
humans be they aliens be they some
[ __ ] civilization or something it's
like they're telling you no no no don't
do that you guys have gotten too much
power that said your argument is more
that yo this looks a little more manev
malevolent to me because they're they're
basically they're showing us they can
take our capabilities and they're and
they're [ __ ] with whether or not
they're these things are actually going
to go into you know whatever the
pre-launch codes are then who's to say
like they wouldn't go off or something
like that my point is why would that why
would it not have happened then why
would it be the pattern that literally
none of them have gone off since 1946
well we made that decision we made that
nope no one did that but us we decided
as a world we're not going to drop them
on each other at least not yet but let's
let's look at this poorly speaking
so in 1945 we vaporized almost 800,000
Souls off this planet yeah dropping two
bombs Hiroshima and Nagasaki okay UAP
did not stop that they were not there
when we were going from the atomic age
to the nuclear age okay which is by the
way goes from kiloton yield to megaton
yield right now we have the power to
literally erase entire cities off the
map vaporized
completely there were no there were
nowhere to be found or stop us from
testing these things in the Nevada
desert they were nowhere to be found to
stop the proliferation now of nuclear
weapons getting into the hands of
countries like oh I don't know North
Korea right and all these other count I
went from one country us to now
everybody's got nukes okay's a great guy
I trust
him yeah that wonderful boyish face um
so and then you look at things like um
Three Mile Island you look at uh
Chernobyl you look at Fukushima they
didn't stop that
right so so there isn't any information
to suggest that it's necessarily here to
help and they haven't stopped you know
world hunger and pandemics and things
like that so there really isn't a whole
lot of information to substantiate that
people it feels good oh they're here to
take matches out of the hands of
children but and they always say you
know well look what happened up in up in
uh with uh with the flight I think it
was November flight um might be Oscar
flight uh of our nukes when entire
flight of missiles were brought down off
fly allegedly by UFO people like oh see
they're they're they're they're turning
them off yeah but in Russia they turn
them on right because they have an
opposite where we have to put our
fingers on the on the proverbial buttons
they have they have like a dead man
switch their fingers are always on the
button and when it comes off that's when
they go you know proverbially speaking
so uh you know Russians are very clever
um you know assured Mutual destruction
and so uh you know and over there
there's reports of them turning them on
so so there is nothing nothing to
suggest that they're necessarily helping
us now let me put on two different hats
here okay one is a national security hat
and by the way it's different than the
way I feel my I I can have two different
perspectives and and unbelievable
absolutely I didn't know that was
possible absolutely yeah sure so there
is my National Security hat right okay
what do I do see I do see these things
very interested in our military equities
I see their ability to interfere with
their nuclear capabilities um and I see
them particularly over our c of military
installations what does that look like
to me that looks like preparation of the
battle space it looks like ISR
intelligence surveillance and
reconnaissance it looks like an active
campaign to understand our capabilities
now that's my National Security hat
right so if you're paying me as a three
star general to think on behalf of the
American people if there's even a 5%
chance he thinks could do something bad
to us then my job is to make sure that
gets down to 0 per. now let me take that
hat off for a second to put on my Louis
elisondo hat okay do I see any evidence
that they're here to harm us as a
species or whatever it is no I don't I
don't but but let me now put on my my my
special agent hat on right third hat
yeah third hat now got got a whole bunch
of them on the shelf right so you come
to me and you say Lou um listen I've got
this problem um went to sleep last night
and I had this crazy experience I I woke
up and I was being taken somewhere um
somewhere I didn't want to go but I was
being taken there uh okay well that's
kidnapping it's Federal Federal Char
youve been taken away from against your
will yeah when I was there Lou they were
they were touching me they were doing
these things to me and it scared me okay
well that that's assault okay another
another felony fence keep keep going
right so that's not a nice thing and you
know I've got daughters if my daughter
got into an Uber and she wanted to go to
the mall and instead they took her
somewhere else that's kidnapping yes
right that's that's not a nice thing
you're talking about experiencers who
say they were abducted right now who
claim that they've been abducted right
abduction think of the word abduction
yeah that's that's a crime that's a
felony baby you ever did you ever come
across cases that you felt had a great
burden of proof evidence to prove that
that had actually happened because you
know how a lot of people are skeptical
of this and to be fair you and I were
having a great conversation before the
cameras were rolling about how
unfortunately in this space so many
people are like I just want to [ __ ]
believe and they believe everything
every single case no matter what and
actually sets the stigma back further it
absolutely does and this is where we get
into the conversation of True Believer
and true Skeptics right they're really
one and the same I know they seem
opposite sides of the spectrum but the
mentality mentality is the same and this
is not an attack on anybody so let me
just preface that but a True Believer no
matter what information you provide them
they will always always believe that
everything they hear is correct and then
you have the professional skeptic that
no matter what evidence is provided they
will never accept the fact that their
narrative could be wrong so those two
folks those two sides of the of the of
the equation are really never my focus
um people always say well you know are
you trying to tell us they're real I'm
not trying to tell you anything my job
is to provide the the data and the facts
and allow you guys to decide what it
means to you and this is why I've always
said to people don't shoot the messenger
and don't ask me what I think because it
doesn't matter what I think what matters
what you think there's so many people in
the UFO community that want to tell you
what they think because they have the
answer they have the solution and
they're the only ones they have a
monopoly on thought and unless you agree
with them then you're crazy right and
that's that's across the board I think
the approach we need to take is look
let's put all narratives aside whether
they're from outer space Inner Space or
space in between here are the here are
the facts here are the facts of what we
are dealing with we are dealing with a
technology that is real we are dealing
with a technology that is interested in
our equities we are dealing with the
technology that can outperform anything
we have that we do know what do we know
we don't know where they're from we
don't know what they want we don't know
what they intend we don't know a whole
bunch of other stuff we don't know
motivation maybe there is no motivation
right we're looking at things through
anthropomorphic eyes you and me are
human beings so we judge everything
based upon this why we give our dogs
people names because we we are we are
whether we realize it or not we are
imposing our
own understanding of of of what it means
to be a human onto everything else and
presume everything else is like us but
that's not necessarily the case
especially when you're dealing with
things like let's say oh I don't know
artificial intelligence where it's
binary there is no motivation intent it
just is right um and so we have to
really limit ourselves from going down
that temptation of assuming everything
is like us everything has motivation
everything has the same type of desires
that we have um and we do that all the
time we do it subconsciously and let me
if I can digress here for a second um
hubris is is really ultimately
responsible for this because we are a
species where we have pride and ego and
we have a narrative in our head and
rather than in the face of new data and
facts reframe our own narrative we
reject that data and hold on to our own
narrative because it's it's it's it's
this is what I believe and therefore any
new information must be wrong right and
let me give you some examples I I went
to like I said University of Miami um
and i' I've always consider myself a
disciple of science um I believe in the
scientific method scientific principles
right um I believe in physics I believe
in mathematics um it works and and uh
when I was in college I learned that it
was the Greek so if you look at modern
human Homo Sapien sapian most
anthropologists agree that modern humans
have been around for the last 100,000 to
200,000 years okay as a modern human
being and if you look at that it wasn't
until the last 2,000 years that we
realize there's only two dominant life
forms on this planet you are either a
plant or you are an animal it was the
Greeks who who recognized that and
humans being an animal uh if you look at
a 24-hour clock right so 200,000 years
ago and then 2,000 years ago it's really
just the last maybe 10 minutes we
realize that and it wasn't until the
Renaissance 300 years ago uh during the
days of Enlightenment that we recognized
and discovered an entirely other form of
life on this planet that we've been
sharing all along that is neither nor
animal and that is the world of fungus
and so we tap ourselves on the shoulder
and say wow what a great great
discovery and it wasn't until the last
maybe 5 Seconds of our existence as
Modern Man on this planet last 120 years
think about it that we had the
technology to actually discover the true
dominant or Alpha life form on this
planet and in fact if you take all the
biomass of every plant and all the
biomass of every animal and all the
biomass of every fungus and add it all
up together it still does not up to this
life hidden life form that has been on
this planet longer than any of us and
that is the world of microorganisms it's
the things that are inside you that make
you up that live on the skin of the ISS
space station and can Thrive miles
beneath the crushing depth of the Arctic
Ice it's everywhere and it wasn't until
we could have the technology to curve
glass and look through a little metal
tube and and famously shout the words
little beasties little beasties did we
discover for the first time the true
dominant Alpha life form on this planet
that's been here all along and so until
we discover the next one here all along
100% you're tracking right until we
discover the next one and that's why oh
this is the greatest discovery in UAP
that mankind no it's not it's just just
another one we're always if there's one
thing mankind is right about is that
we're fact that we're usually wrong A
lot of times when I grew up in science I
was told and this is recent all life
forms are based on ultimately the
building blocks of photosynthesis all
life form well that's not true in fact
if you go to the deepest parts of the
ocean where there are these things
called black smokers uh these vents
heated vents super heated vents
underwater volcanic vents um life is
abundant down there and it thrives off
of a process called chemo synthesis
there is no light down there and they're
thriving because they are metabolizing
and getting energy based upon
chemosynthesis complete opposite of
photosynthesis so you know we keep
learning all these these new fundamental
realities about what life can be and
what it can't be and then you have you
have the what I call the human issue
because it is definitely a human
issue we have five fundamental senses by
which we judge the
universe and if you can't touch it taste
it hear it smell it Etc um it's very
hard for us to understand anything that
be that's beyond that and yet the
reality is most of the universe lies
beyond that so what do I mean um take my
cell phone for example if I had the
ability to see in cell phone Vision
right I would perceive the world through
Wi-Fi and through 5G and through GPS yes
and I would see a completely different
reality it's just like you and me
sitting here right now I'm using my eyes
behind you there's a reality that you
can't perceive I can see it perfectly
and right now behind me there's a
reality that I can't perceive or
interact with but you can right and
we're in the same place we're in the
exact same place and there's two
completely different worlds that you and
I are experiencing right now then you
have so where I live in Wyoming
beautiful night skies and if you look at
the skies wonderful for stargazing if
you look at that same part of the night
sky with a radio telescope you're going
to see a completely different reality
you're going to see nebula and you're
going to see things gas clouds there in
different frequencies that we can't
perceive and that's reality is where
most of the universe lies in the
ultraviolet and the infrared Spectrum
the X-ray spectrums and that is that's
the real Universe we see a perceive a
tiny tiny tiny little sliver of what
really is there and we pretend oh that's
well that therefore that's the universe
no that's actually 0.2% of the universe
and then you've got a scalability issue
okay what I mean by
scalability if you look in any direction
around you in Space the scientists say
that the universal Horizon of light the
farthest we can see into the depths of
our of our universe is roughly 13.6 to
13.9 billion billion billion with a B
billion Lighty years in any direction
right and we are this infant teson Speck
in the middle what is a lightyear it is
the speed the distance that light can
travel in one year so let's do the
calculation here real quick for your
audience light travels at
186,000 miles per second okay s and a
half s and a half times around our
planet in one second imagine how far you
can go in a year and now multiply that
by 13.9
billion so if we are in the middle I can
see that way 13.9 billion that W 13.9
billion that's roughly
27 billion Lighty years across and
that's just the visible Universe
scientists actually believe that there
that's only 10% of the actual universe
and in our in in in just our universe we
can see more stars in our visible
Universe than there are grains of sand
in all the beaches in all the world yeah
right and so so if the universe is
actually a 100 billion Lighty years
across and possibly bigger compared to
us that is enormously huge but but then
look at avagadro's number real quick and
this is important because I'm about to
make make make a a my point here if you
compare one hydrogen atom
okay to the on the screen yeah okay good
so that that is to the power of 23 1 *
10
23 that is roughly one one hydrogen atom
is roughly the same scale and size as to
us as we are to the universe meaning we
have that infinite amount of space and
scale inside every single human being
but as humans we can only interact with
maybe one or two orders of magnitude up
or down because this is our size right
we kind of SM smack right in the middle
of the universal scale if you were to to
have a scale most of the universe is
either too big or too small for us to
even interact with that's reality that's
that is the real realness of of The
Human Experience but because we live in
this little narrowly defined where we
can only perceive a little bit and we
our scale is too most of the universe is
too big or too
small there in lies most of reality
that's where the universe is and so for
us to say that oh well you know the only
things out here and you know there's a
bunch of nonsense in whoie man I mean
that's that's math that's real
that's real right that's not L aland
telling you that that's that's real um
and so huis is something that we we have
to we have to be careful of because
we're always trying to squeeze Mother
Nature into a little box that we have
invented we've created but Mother Nature
doesn't operate that way she she she
doesn't need to be confined to a box
we're the ones living in a box we just
don't realize we do it to ourselves
which means that things that we may put
outside of our box through Hollywood or
story that we tell such as like alien
abductions may actually be something
that we need to consider because there
are things that don't have an
explanation in our current physical
world as we know it there was there was
a great quote in your book you talked
about the former director of something
something at Skunk Works who said
impossible is impossible until we've
[ __ ] done it that's right I put the
[ __ ] in there from Jersey you're
right you know you understand what I'm
saying so these things you had to open
yourself up to the stuff you previously
said was czy olog is yesterday's magic
yeah and that's that's that is fact you
know everything that we do we're time
and time and time again there we put
these limitations we there was a time we
said well Earth is the only thing uh
object that's made of rock and the
heavens are up there and there's there's
nothing else out there and yet this is
all the while that we knew meteors
existed they were rocked for falling to
Earth all the time how do you explain
that right theying from somewhere um
there was times where we we would always
presume certain things we'd never break
the sound barrier until we did it right
there's all these things that science
has said well we can never do until we
do and then it becomes routine and it's
not science's fault it's our fault
because we make these presumptions and
assumptions of what life should and
could be not realizing that we are
overlaying our own Human Experience onto
the data so we are by necessity the fact
that we're humans we're already
polluting the data because we have a
hard time looking through any other lens
than a human lens and so we tend to
ascribe human emotion human intent human
motivation to things that may not be and
so back to where we're talking about the
science and this is why I bring up this
long drawn out story about size and
perception and things like that people
say were they from outer space they
could be but this I've always said it
could be from outer space Inner Space or
frankly the space in between as you said
they are these things uh
interdimensional could be are they
aliens from outer space could be are
they as natural to this planet as we are
absolutely is it to the point where now
techn ically we're at a point where
we're now beginning to interact with
them just like the little beasties
little beasties could be are these
things maybe from underwater because
look we've only mapped less than 10% of
the ocean floor we know or all the above
or all the above right we know more
about the surface of the Moon than the
depths of our own oceans I had a
submarine Commander once tell me and
he's he was dead serious it's a little
funny I'll sh share with your audience
but it it it's both disturbing and funny
um they were tracking an object um these
submarines are huge I mean some of these
are imagine the Empire State building
sideways underwater right these are big
big submarines some of these 500 ft long
right um big boys and you're traveling
underwater and you pick up something on
Sonar that's traveling roughly between
400 to 500 miles an hour underwater and
it's bigger than you right oh yeah and
so I asked the commander I mean honest
question I was kind of shocked I'm like
well in those cases what do you do and
he he looked at me no he looked at me
straight face he said we go around
like you know a dumb question makes
sense yeah I guess I would too you know
just like that totally like yeah we go
around I'm like yeah I'm not messing
with that either cool so um you know
there there's a lot to this conversation
and the problem is that we're always
going back to the original conversation
we were having about you know people on
both sides of the spectrum Skeptics and
Believers both of them are stuck to
their own narrative both of them in the
face of new information even though that
we live in a world that's
Dynamic um they are very hesitant to
change their opinion because they're
stuck in a static mindset but the
universe isn't static the universe is
dynamic so we have to recalibrate our
the way way we think we can't think in a
static way we have to be dynamic with
the universe if we want to understand
the universe and so that's that's kind
of my my my philosophical perspective on
the topic that's great philosophy I I
appreciate all the depths of that that's
that was I was riveted by some of that
again I I got you're sneezing taking a
nap and I'm not I haven't been snoozed
in one second I'm kidding I'm kidding
I'm already extremely pissed off that we
only have 3 hours though because like
holy [ __ ] is there so much here like
you're saying something every two
seconds I'm like oh we could go there we
could go there we could go there we
could go there I can come back any time
you want brother all right we are well
we're definitely doing that then but
well we'll see we'll see about your what
uh people say online I'm sure well
listen listen just don't look at the
comment section okay just don't do that
cuz people are going to say what they're
going to say in there but you know going
back to the abduction stuff because we
keep getting off it did you come across
cases that you again it's not like you
were there so you can't say a th% this
happened but did you come across one out
of the billion people who are like yeah
I was abducted and [ __ ] by an alien
where you're actually like oh wait might
have happened so for me the most
compelling remember we go back to data
right data data data let let the facts
be for themselves um there was some
situations where an individual had
claimed to come up close and personal
with a UAP they sustained a medical
consequence now I'm not a trained
medical surgeon right I'm not uh but we
had people that were medical
professionals that were supporting us
and they were working with individuals
who could quantify and qualif they could
quantify and qualify medically changes
in in the person's physical health they
they actually sustained injury so
there's there are several doctors I want
to be very careful because I don't want
to mention their names until them I'm
publicly allowed to say their names um
because of for privacy reasons I don't
want them getting slammed and you know
harassed uh but there is enough
information to substantiate from a
medical perspective that we've had
military service members and
intelligence officials intelligence
individuals harmed by rendam 1980 I I
had Nick Pope in here to break down that
whole thing brother those two guys are
on full 100% medical disability I saw
the paperwork from the US government and
it says because the reason why the
medical disability by the US government
your tax dollars are paying for it
because of their involvement in renam
and that's just one example and thank
God it was for for Senator John late
Senator John McCain because he if it
wasn't for him these guys would have
been totally toast he was the one who
got their medical records out were
classified by the Air Force right
classifying your medical records who the
hell do you who do you think you are
that you can do that anyways it's my
medical records they classified him and
if it wasn't for John McCain getting
them Declassified these guys would be
suffering today probably dead yeah so
and that's one example I mean there are
other individuals I can tell you right
now a very senior former senior Cia
official very very senior like one of
the top guys um I do not have permission
to talk about his story but him and his
spouse came up close had a very
terrifying experience and actually a
foreign object was removed from from
removed from his body from her from her
so there was it was a husband and wife
team okay without saying name like what
was the what was the nature you know it
I want to be really careful there's
Hippa and patient confidentiality so I I
I'm sure that person is going to
probably at some point come out this is
why Congress is now taking this topic
seriously because there are people like
hey yeah guess what that senior dude who
I
know is now coming and telling me about
their experience people are feeling that
it's a little bit more safer now to come
out and and have this conversation with
the right people we are trying very hard
to create an environment where people
feel safe they can come out and talk
about their experiences whether they
worked on Legacy programs or that they
were uh a somebody under Medical Care by
the US government um you know these are
all little factoids that most people
have no
idea even exist well you talk about your
own experiences too and and it hasn't
affected you healthwise like some of
these other ones but you talked about
how you
know I guess like shortly after being
assigned to this test for the first time
you started to notice orbs in your house
in in in Kent and your wife did too can
you can you tell me what happened and
let me be clear cuz I don't I can't tell
you the straight face that they're UFO
related or they're UFOs I can't that's
good so you're you're open-minded on
this oh 100% brother yeah let me let me
tell you again let's go to the facts
right I get into this program matp and
here's the facts we start seeing these
green luminous balls of light diffused
some the size of maybe volleyball some
the size of a little baseball and
they're witnessed not only by me
otherwise I wouldn't have said anything
they're witnessed by my spouse and
they're also witnessed by my kids and
even some of our neighbors are seeing
these balls of light outside your house
inside the house inside down the hallway
just going by almost like a like a
really bizarre um volleyball up to that
side yeah like well but remember diffuse
right so it's not like it's just it's
the glow pattern comes up to about here
and then so these are being witnessed
and at the same time other individuals
that were part of atip are also having a
similar experience so what we do know is
that other people in the a program were
also experiencing this now could it be
could it be ball lightning sure could it
be say almost fire sure could it be
faulty wiring and now it's a it's
ionizing the air local around it and
it's creating these luminous plasma
balls
100% but makes it interesting is it
wasn't just us it was other people in
ATP who were also experiencing it while
they were working in a tip before a tip
didn't have the problem and after a tip
didn't have the problem only during a
tip so that's the facts but whether they
were actually UAP or related UAP I can't
tell you that I don't know approximately
how many times did this happen and over
what type of time period are we talking
about so 2010 to
probably
2017 16 um
probably you know I say like once every
couple months people like oh then you
know every two months no cuz sometimes
you'd see it back to back in a couple
days and then it might be two three four
months and then all of a sudden three
more days go by and you you're seeing
these green balls of of light in the
house uh even in outside as well um so
there wasn't any pattern that's one
thing you know obviously trying to find
a pattern to this is coming every
Tuesday during random yeah random random
and of course we're asleep at night and
I'm not at home during the day so I'm
only seeing them while I'm at home and
same with my family my kids are at
school my wife is working too so it
could have been much more frequent but
we just weren't there to see it did you
report this to put off or or Davis or or
people on the a tip team yeah they they
called it they had a term for it they
called it high
strangeness High St what what do you
mean I don't know
ask them I don't know what the hell it
means got high strange okay yeah strange
you're right did they come in and
investigate it though like did they try
to set up anything no they they had no
issue with it at all they said it very
very normal for for that was normal so
someone on the a tip team counter Intel
guy is now seeing not counter Intel oh
yeah I was counter Intel that's what I'm
saying is now seeing orbs in his house
while you're working on this project
about these uaps right and the team
that's in charge of uaps doesn't want to
go investigate that no they're saying
that they're having the same issue too
they're like what do you want to do
about it I don't know I don't know set
up a camera Ghostbusters get Bill Murray
in there do something right yeah well
unfortunately once every few months
you'd have to have a lot of cameras I
don't have a setup like this I can't
afford anything that's fancy listen I'll
donate these we're going to find man
bear pig in there baby let's get out on
the line there are uh there are other
individuals that are I think going to be
coming out uh of the Shadows here soon
that will also expound upon their
experiences um this is really just kind
of the tip of the iceberg um fortunately
for us it was just orbs for other people
that had other experiences not my story
to tell um I did not experience it with
them but you know it was it was peculiar
it was all right real quick I just got
to go to the bathroom we'll be right
back well that's because I'm I I have
the mentality of a first grader I I'm I
mean I I've got to I've got to keep [ __ ]
simple because I am I you know I'm I
tell people all the time when I walk
into a room the IQ drops about 20 points
automatically so you know I got to keep
I got to I got to color by the Numbers
man otherwise I I I I can't keep up all
right well let's get back on we're good
over here all right all right we're back
Lou one of the things that that you laid
out throughout your book just for like
context I thought was really good was a
lot of the alleged and I would say even
like known history involving UAP that
have been witnessed or incidents that
have occurred and what what you
explained is that you once you were
first brought into this you started
going through whatever government
documents you could which include stuff
that we could all get through Foya and
then also included some things that
would be like classified that you
couldn't there was actually a lot of
classifi you'd be surprised there's
actually a lot now they have since I
think Titan the range on it and
probably put some restrictions but in
the early days um on the classified
system on the high side what we call
high side the the the top secret system
uh you could just do a word search and
just you avoid someone what we call the
dirty words get you in trouble yeah hot
words but man you could find all sorts
of great intelligence out there man
about these things and it was really
really helpful it was really helpful how
did you know yeah you talked about these
hot words terms like oh if you do that
you're going to get flagged and called
in somewhere and maybe be pull from the
program how did you even know what those
words were did you ask like how put off
about that so where I was we knew what
some of those hot wordss would be um
especially if there were people in a
legacy capacity that didn't want you to
know so certainly like you know uo right
unidentified flying object uh no
surprise there uh but you could look at
things like um anomalous another one
would be uh unidentified
aircraft because a lot of time people
would write a report saying we have an
unidentified aircraft doing you know
Mach 22 right which there's no aircraft
that is mach 22 um or you could also
write in for example Lumin as a word um
which is uh bright right so when you
talk about a luminous object in the sky
well you would type luminous and then
type in sky and then all the reports
about something that was luminous in the
sky right so there's ways to do it now
now could be a rocket test rocket right
where now you could say well the the the
rocket I was ascending up to 25,000 ft
created a luminous Halo up in the
atmosphere that was observed for the
last you know for for 120 miles and so
that's a rocket test obviously but then
when you have others where they're
talking about luminous balls of light
doing other things and you're like okay
well that's that's not a test rocket
Rockets go in a very specific trajectory
right um and they don't change
directions very often um so when you're
seeing reports of these things
maneuvering in a certain way over a
certain country the problem is it gets
kind of kind of difficult because a lot
of the information is classified because
of under the circumstances in which it
was collected right so we we classify
information in this country for two
reasons to protect sources and to
protect methods it is in fact illegal to
to classify information simply for the
for the sole purpose of of trying to
hide information that's of uh either
illegal activity or malfeasance or even
embarrassing to the US government you
can actually look at I there's a DOD
directive I can show you at some point
if you're interested but the problem is
that the government was doing that they
were they were classifying information
simply because they didn't want to tell
people the truth about UAP and that's a
problem and so you have this data that's
out there and let's say we get this
information from uh uh a human Source
we're trying to protect or we have some
information from um signals intercept
over a particular country you don't want
to broadcast that right you don't want
your enemy to know what you're doing and
where you're doing it so you classify
that information but what you can't do
is classify
information that doesn't relate to the
protection of sources of method right
the how does it not relate to it though
if it's involved with UAP which is like
the ultimate like National there's no
Source the perfect example um the fact
that North Korea has um a nuclear
capability that's not classified now how
those things work and what are they
aimed at and how that that's classified
that's sources and methods but the mere
fact that country X has nukes that's not
a classifiable fact the mere fact that
we're not alone in the universe that's
not a classifiable fact right it's it's
like Galileo when he first proposed that
the Earth was not the center of the
solar system right what happened burned
him to on the stake right so we had to
recant um that's not a classifiable fact
you can't you can't restrict the
citizens of a country from knowing
forgive the pun an inalienable right
this is this is this is Facts of Life of
of Truth so you're telling me that all
of our adversaries or countries out
there that may not be necessarily
benevolent if you will you're telling me
that any Weaponry they may have
including things that are beyond our
imagination right now let me just throw
an example out there some sort of
biological warfare weapon that's not
sarin gas or something more basic that
we at least understand you're telling me
that all that right now if it's not
Declassified should be here's the
reality right yes it should be look the
fact that Russian has Hypersonic weapons
that's not they we've admitted that they
know it we know it everybody said it
that we have news reports on all the
time now how they work and how are they
deployed and where are they deployed and
what are their capabilities are I
absolutely keep that classified because
we don't want the bad guys to know that
we know all of that but the mere fact
that they
exist that's not classifiable fact the
fact that something exists now you can
classify a US capability that exists
because we don't want to let the bad
guys know so what is the difference in
the gray area with this and that if we
think I'm just playing hypothetical
because I want to know all of it by the
way but if we we have data on UAP that
we think no one else may have or don't
know if other people that would keep
classified because that's capabilities
remember so we're talking about sources
and methods and some of the methods by
which we collect information is very
classified where we're doing it how
we're doing it you don't want the bad
guys to know that so you would classify
certain things regarding capabilities
right again North Korea
has nuclear warheads we know that how
they work and how they're used and the
technology behind it yeah you protect
that of course okay so so there is there
is some great area excuse me and there
is also some some there are some
incidents where the mere fact of
something existing
can be classified so for example the
fact that a US government is involved in
a particular Mission under certain
authorities like covert action that is
kept classified we don't we don't admit
that we're involved in that effort okay
so you can under certain legal
circumstances classify information and
protect that information but what you
can't do is classify information that's
not really related to source of methods
or covert action and that is that is
trying to hide a a fact about something
um that is not that is not a
classifiable fact you know it'd be like
when the church tried to classify the
fact that the Earth wasn't the center of
the solar system well that's that's
that's reality that's her you know
that's our current Paradigm um and so
for my my perspective my what drives me
every single day isn't the UAP topic
people think oh UAP it's not it's it's
ultimately
it's I took an oath to defend this
country from all enemies foreign and
domestic and I've never been relieved of
that oath and it turns out that in this
particular case it was the
bureaucracy that that we had some
trouble with um the government US
government is really good at a lot of
stuff I mean it's fantastic the best
country in the world Bar None and this
country afforded my family opportunities
no other country could or would so I am
extremely loyal to my country I'm
extremely loyal to my government I'm
extremely loyal to the citizens of this
country the problem is is that there
were there were people in government
making decisions on behalf of the
American people that they had no
business making those decisions they did
not have the authority to do and so for
me transparency and accountability if
you want a government to be accountable
you first have to be transparent that's
the only way you're going to get
accountability I had a conversation I'll
share with you I've started sharing it
was very personal to me um so in the
book I talk about my my my mother
passing away uh my father recently
passed away a couple years ago sorry to
hear no no it's okay it's it's life you
know he he literally died with his boots
on uh old revolutionary from your dad
was a Savage dude dude he was yeah he
was something else that's uh yeah tell
people who your dad was come on so my
dad was a uh revolutionary he fought
with Castro against Batista in Cuba and
then when Castro went communist he
joined the CIA program uh trained in
Guatemala and was part of the Bay of
Pigs invasion he was a member of the
Brigade
2506 served several years in pris
prisons and Castro jails and uh came
back to the United States um and uh you
know he um he had a he was a wounded
Soul um he experienced things there that
I'm sure probably made him do certain
things later in life um incredible human
being very hardworking came to this
country with not a dime in his pocket
and and was self-made uh and all
legitimate um and he instilled in me the
sense of patriotism that I have and he
always told me think
um you know about what it is to serve
and and why it's important to serve and
sacrifice but my father was also very
intelligent he was a um you know I don't
know what happened cuz I didn't get his
I didn't get his brains but my dad was
uh was a intellectual as well and I
remember so my dad died two father's
days ago uh so Father's Day a couple
years ago and towards the end you know
he never told me he was he was dying but
I could tell I I could tell he was sick
he had cancer but he didn't tell me but
at towards the endend he stopped eating
and you can see when that starts to take
its toll so about a month before he died
I had an opportunity to go on a road
trip with him so he went from Wyoming a
month before he died month before he
died so we dude my dad was guy has
cancer month before from cancer taking a
road trip yeah and he's going Rojo so we
went Wyoming all the way day yeah for me
I'd be laying in bed and eating Cheetos
and all the crap I'm not supposed to eat
and doing all the stuff I supposed to do
he goes on a road trip with his son and
we go from Wyoming down to I know Miami
right where where all of us
right so we're going uh to Miami to see
the family and um about halfway through
I think we're probably in Kansas
somewhere and I asked my dad and and I
feel guilty about this because I act I
asked him almost
flippantly like just to fill in you know
that what do you think so I said dad
what do you think is the greatest threat
to humanity now I'm thinking to myself
is it a you know pandemic is it a
disease is it is it Warfare is it Terror
ISM my father sat for a moment moment
and he looked at me and he said
corruption and I said corruption like
what Financial corruption he said no no
no corruption corruption is the act of
sacrificing or giving away a core value
you have in exchange for something else
so whether it's Financial corruption
religious corruption governmental
corruption moral corruption you are you
are trading away a more a a core value
in exchange for something and so in
government when you do that no matter
what where it is you if you are corrupt
in government you start chipping away at
the very Foundation of what democracy is
and my father warned me he says son it's
a very slippery slope from that to
tyranny it happens fast believe me it
happens fast so so we have an obligation
this country this is a country where we
have a government for the people and by
the people this is a government where if
you're working in government your job is
to serve the interest of the American
people not the other way around but
people forget that in government they
start to think no actually you know this
is this is this is my job and I can
start making decisions and when they
start making decisions on behalf of the
American people that they're not allowed
to for example in this particular topic
UAP where you have people not informing
members of Congress who have a need to
know who are supposed to know they're
not informing the chain of command and
they're not informing the president of
the United States that's a problem
that's illegal you cannot do that right
and either this country either this this
Constitution and these rules mean
something or they don't and my response
to them look if the rules don't apply
anymore that's fine just tell the
American people because we know how to
fix that [ __ ] trust me we're pretty good
at that so you know but don't this these
rules apply to thee and not to me
especially in government you have a
moral responsibility you work for the
people and if you forget that then you
got to get the hell out of government
that is not that is and this is for me
this is part of transparency and
accountability it's not just the UAP
issue people say oh you're the UFO guy
no not that's that's one thing I am I am
for government accountability and
transparency that's the only reason why
this government works that is the only
reason we have faith and and and our our
the faith and confidence in this
government that is the only reason why
we have it because it is supposed to be
working the right way and when it
doesn't because a few people make a
unilateral decision that they don't want
it to that's a problem okay I appreciate
that and it's interesting though to hear
the depth of that explanation though and
but before I go into what I'm going to
go into I I do want to say you allegedly
left the Pentagon in 2017 do you guys
ever really leave come on you did say
you haven't given up that oath or
something didn't he say that like like
10 minutes ago Le is's like I still have
never given up that I I I've said this
before I I I still maintain my security
clearance and I do consult with the US
government on an as needed basis I I've
always made that very clear I've never
hid that fact he has never hidden that
I'll give so but what what I'm going to
say is that you have any disclosure that
you've done including this book and
everything since 2017 you've been very
careful to do everything in a legal
manner 100% your colleague Chris Millan
when he walked the paperwork into the
New York Times in 2017 was able to do
that because of I forget the name of the
law and the stipulation but because of a
recent stipulation that had been passed
in Congress that allowed him to do that
obviously this is something you were
involved with so you guys have done it
by the letter of the law I do need to
say that however you talk about about a
government for the people and by the
people and that you have I believe you
phrased it something like a moral
responsibility to report to people if
something has been done that is
compromising that and yet you are also a
guy who has strong criticism of Edward
Snowden now let me be very Frank on how
I look at Edward Snowden I look at him
as being stuck between a [ __ ] and a fart
okay slippery slopes on both ends on one
end he sees the United States
Constitution being being trampled on by
the government through some weird legal
Maneuvers that basically obfuscated what
they were really doing from the courts
and when he did try to take that up the
chain of command they told him [ __ ] off
get out of here so that's one problem on
the other hand though the minute he goes
and reports something and breaks his
oath right he he had an oath that said I
swear to secrecy anything that I'm told
to keep secret in the government he is
now like maybe his situation is good
enough to do that but he now sets a
precedent where the next person can say
oh I reported I reported because Snowden
did it and maybe theirs is
99.9% the importance of his and so on
down and eventually you know you're down
at 1% and people are reporting
everything that happens in government so
either way it's a problem however if you
have that moral obligation like you said
could you not see how someone like
Snowden felt the way he did totally
different scenario from uip to be to
very fair here but felt the way he did
from a constitutional perspective to
come out and make that type of
disclosure problem with the way Snowden
felt I have a problem with what Snowden
did he took his information and gave it
to the Russians that's the problem he
gave it to the Russians yes that's the
problem he didn't come out and
whistleblow he came out and spy he
leaked information classified
information I've never done that I've
never purported to do it I don't support
it what do you mean he leaked it to the
Russians brother that's why he went to
Russia for to well his plane got down by
at the time Vice President Joe Biden he
was flying from brother he's living in
Russia I know but he was flying from I
know but he was flying from Hong Kong to
Ecuador and his plane got downed in
Russia by you know what he had with him
right he he he gave up that it wasn't
just to Julian Assange this is not like
like uh private Manning did where you
know they were just trying to expose
some things which by the way was still
wrong there's a right way and wrong way
to do situation yeah he actually
compromised people who died and that is
a problem there there there are people
who are no longer alive right now so
that's been that's been disputed though
there's there's people that say that
there's no one who died as a result of
though he may have risked it no there
there there are there there are I can't
go into details there are sources who
died and so from my perspective I never
took this information and ran to the
Hills first of all everything I've
discussed has always been unclassified
and if I wasn't sure I went to the
Pentagon and I asked so there is a big
difference between going and running
from your country and taking a bunch of
classified information with you and
releasing that I never did that and I
never will do that and I never have done
that and I think anybody who does I
should go to jail okay what I've done is
to have the conversation I've used the
system to my advantage and to all of our
advantage I believe I hope and if you
look at the track record I think it's
fair to say that we have by doing it the
right way look no one's gone to jail and
look how far we are we now have Congress
involved we now have an arrow
established we now have rules and laws
on the books right we have whistleblower
protection we have we have right now new
legislation that's being proposed right
now as part of the new ndaa that's in
the last seven years brother think about
it we have gone further in disclosure in
seven years than the last 70 and we
didn't have to break any rules we did it
the right way no one's gone to jail and
we can can still still have this
conversation so you know I there's
there's I've always said there's a
difference between doing things right
and doing them right now and I think if
you have only one chance to do it right
then we need to do it that way now could
I be wrong sure are there other people
that would have a difference of opinion
and think it should be done the other
way sure and my response is be my guest
do what you want to do what you want to
do you know yeah like like I said it it
does need to be said that if you're that
if you're looking at the record of what
we know publicly about you about the
people involved the things have been
done more by the book and there there's
some there's something to be said for
that for sure and I also think you know
this is also I don't I don't want to
delegitimize it or anything by any means
but it's also such a pop culture
phenomenon too cuz people are like oh I
want to know right so you can kind of
develop and this doesn't always go the
right way but you can develop like a
fanboy syndrome where people want to
know more they want to know more and
you're going to give it to them 100% And
and that's why no that's a problem and
this is this is you're hitting the nail
on the head for me I if I if I can just
jump in here you know people confuse a
messenger with a message all the time
and and this is this is one of my
personal struggles with people
because people will see someone in a and
I'm sure this happens with you too right
you have this Persona that they have in
their mind of view of what you're what
you're doing and then all of a sudden
you know um you become the more
important thing than what it is you're
trying to communicate and from my
perspective I try to remind people look
I'm just like you I'm I have I have the
same issues as you I pay my bills like
you I've the same bias as you I've I'm
just a normal Schmo the only difference
is I was in a position where I felt I
needed to do something about it I'm not
a hero I tell people that all the time I
have this horrible impostor syndrome
that I have because people say oh you're
a hero no I'm not a hero because I serve
with Heroes and a lot of them didn't
come back so I know what a real hero is
and I'm not a hero I'm just a guy
finishing the job that he was given to
begin with and fr frankly there's
probably always told people this before
anybody else in my situation including
you or anybody else who took the same
oath I did and was in my job would have
probably done exactly the same thing I
did and arguably you might have even
done a better job than me so I just
happen to be the guy in the in the
chamber at the time and you know okay
guys here's the reality of things but by
no means you know I people say well
you're leading this disclosure effort I
sure hope not I really do because I'm
not the guy for that this is a relay
race and and my job is just to carry the
Baton as far as I can here you go you
know I'm I'm I'm not I'm not the guy
who's going to win the race I'm just one
of the guys in a long chain to get us
where we are look you were just a part
of this chain as I am you're having this
conversation with people right now in
your audience you have a global reach
now think about that for a second think
about that responsibility you today's
day and age right now have a larger
Global a audience than many of the world
leaders just 10 years ago you have that
right so so you are very much part of
this this effort as well so I'm just one
dude just like you're just one dude but
we also all and this includes you too we
also
don't we don't want to be a useful idiot
in that as well you know what I mean you
can only know what you know I mean
really from my SE cuz I literally sit in
an armchair here you've at least been on
the inside but have you ever thought
about that too because it's not like you
were head of the CIA or something you
were high up or whatever but have you
thought about the idea that maybe you
were given access to things like and I'm
not delegitimizing you as person I'm
saying like oh o like let's drop some
nuts and let's get the best squirrel
that we know is going to manipulate yeah
then we can manipulate him to go and put
on message that's always a possibility
but then you're talking about a
conspiracy on a level that would that
would be it would be so cost prohibitive
and the coordination so tight because
most of these people like me had access
to just about a lot I mean almost
everything so you would have to keep a
long running secret and you'd have to
back stop it for years beforehand like
decades yes if you wanted to execute
this and then you have to ask a reason
why why there's so much easier ways to
do it if you want more funding for space
technology all you got to say is look
this is what the Russians are doing okay
here's your money you don't you don't
got to go through this elaborate dance
and you know hire a bunch of people to
pretend that they saw something and make
fake radar footage and make fake Fleer
videos and make fake you know gun camera
footage I mean that's why there's so
much simpler ways to do it you know and
more effective ways you would spend more
money creating this illusion than you
would ever get as an end result trying
to fund some sort of program it it
doesn't make Financial sense you're
going to spend a billion dollars to make
a million just tell them the UFOs are
eating the dogs they're eating the
cats can go get all the funding you want
yikes yikes I'm not going there with oh
man the 10 foot pole that's okay I had
to throw that one in there I see what
you're saying though I think I think
that's a I think that's a fair point
it's like why would you why would you go
away from what works just for the sake
of doing it it's been proven over and
over again it's not like the
military-industrial complex has a
problem saying yes to a bill if it's a
threat from another country that's right
that's I mean it's that's what make
that's what funds the war machine why
why would you come up with some
cockamamy elaborate I mean first of all
anybody who would approve that would be
[ __ ] I mean I'm like I'm sorry that's a
big no know and oh by the way if it ever
comes out cuz eventually it will if that
was a case then we're all going to jail
you know yeah but you also with this
topic because of the nature of its
relation to meaning of life if you will
you know you ran into a problem in the
Pentagon that I mean you described it as
like mind-blowing to you that this would
ever happen and it's mind-blowing to me
too which is like with the quote unquote
colins Elite so you at some point within
a tip growing as a Hub within there you
started to run into people where you you
didn't the way you described it in your
book is that you you didn't necessarily
know who they were they almost operated
silently where there was a large
contingent in this 22,000 person [ __ ]
place the Pentagon that had their
biblical beliefs dictate how they wanted
to handle something like this which was
really in a lot of ways to say don't
handle it and I believe there was there
was one guy who you had previously
respected who at some point and still
respect by the way I still respect that
person okay so he pulled you aside at
one point and said Lou you're getting
into demonic [ __ ] here have you read
your Bible lately and you're looking at
him as an Intel guy whose job is
National Security going I'm sorry my
Bible right like do you understand why
at home this seems wild to someone like
me or a lot of people listening that
like a religious belief is brother don't
look now but when's the last time you
pulled the dollar out of your pocket
what's it say in there in God we trust
yeah I mean look I hate to break it to
you but you know a lot of a lot of our
country was based on certain moral
principles and and even religious values
um that's a fact you know there's a
reason why we have a National Cathedral
right and things like that doesn't
that's not a bad thing you know this
country is it's it's okay to have faith
in this country in fact I I am a man of
Faith um I don't wear my religion on my
sleeve and I'm very personal about it
but people know when you read my book I
was I was raised Jewish that's that's
that's the way I was raised I went to
Hebrew school and War yamaka um and on
my father's side they were they were
catholic um so my mother's side that she
chose to raise me Jewish um I don't have
a problem with faith in fact I think
faith is important it gets people
through a lot of things what I have a
problem with is when
people overlay their faith on a national
level security issue now is it that
strange that that happens no we have we
have National prayers all the time that
our presidents lead right so faith is
important in our country and I'm not
blaming anybody if they believe that
these things are demonic or they're
anti-christian and by the way I don't
want to villainize the Christians either
because it's not a Christian issue yeah
neither am I by the way yeah yeah yeah
no I got it but but I guess I want to
make clear that look extremism by any
other word is still extremism whether
it's Muslim extremism Christian
extremism Judaism is extremism extremism
is extremism we can all agree on that my
and that's my concern it's when people
that are in the government are are
exercising their View use in a way
that's unilateral without allowing other
people to be part of that conversation
that is a problem for me now you I've
have believe faith is great to have and
if it if it's a moral compass for you
fantastic but I don't think that we have
the right to impose our religious views
in a decision process over other people
who may not share that look there's two
this is i' I I often try to explain to
people there's really two types of
truths in the world because people say
oh there's only one truth no that's not
true there's actually two types of
truths in the world there is a universal
truth like gravity right affects us all
the same and there's a personal truth
the personal truth is like religion or
politics right it can be just as
truthful to you as gravity but it might
not be to him it's a personal truth and
it may not be backed by the evidence and
it might not might or might not be
backed by the evidence and so we have to
understand what we can't do is apply a
personal
truth in a universal decision a
universal truth like gravity yes but you
cannot this why whether it's political
or religious or anything else a personal
truth should never be be used in a
decision that affects affects more than
yourself and this it's hard to do it's
hard to do because you think you're
doing the right thing you think
everybody feels that way and everybody's
like you but they're not and that's what
we have to avoid this is part of that
Human Experience again right we we're we
are looking through a lens that say well
this is my personal truth and it's a
universal truth well is it really though
it's a personal truth but is it really a
universal truth and if it's not then
maybe you should try to remove that
personal truth out of the equation and
just stick to the universal truths and
but that's hard to do because a lot of
people don't even know the difference I
look I don't care if you're liberal or
conservative or anywhere in between
people have their opinions and man there
are people that are really believ in
their opinions they're willing to do
extreme stuff because their personal
truth they think is a universal truth
man and they do things
that um don't think for one second
somebody who who hate to be crude here
but Burns himself alive in protest
that's that's a universal truth for them
even though for us it may be a personal
truth I mean they are willing to give
their lives for it right right um so we
have to understand that um and and in
government's no different religions are
different you know where where personal
truth becomes a universal truth it's the
reason why Isis felt the way they did
because you know they think well the
whole world needs to be the way this is
universal truth and I'm not I'm not
bashing on anybody who's Muslim most of
my friends were Muslim in college but
extremism again is extremism whether
it's Muslim extremism Christian
extremism Jud you know does matter
extremism that's right it doesn't matter
what it is and then you have
governmental extremism and that's also a
problem how much did they impact how
much was that a a constant thorn in your
side with as it pertains to actions that
could or could not be taken by a tip you
know what there was some people I won't
say the person's name there was another
individual that was part of the uh under
secretary defense for intelligence who's
very well known very vocal about his
personal views religious views and he
made decisions based off of it
um you know I again it's one of those
things it it didn't it didn't affect us
other than maybe for funding um but I
did not I did not feel dayto day that
there was this pressure by them it was
we got up to a certain point they kind
of said stop here yeah like whoa okay
and we didn't we didn't stop so um you
know other than a curiosity of saying
wow that's interesting I actually came
face to face with one of these guys um
it did not I don't think it really
impacted uh now there's other people in
they that will probably violently
disagree like oh man these are the ones
these are the guys that created such a
headache for us and they did they did I
mean I think that story will probably
come out at some point they they did
make our life hell for a while
ironically enough
right but um it uh it it didn't it
didn't affect me that much personally
well one of the arguments a lot of
people who may be purely on the
religious side make is that you know
they'll point to the fact that we have
no physical evidence of this stuff it
just leaves the mark so it's a demonic
creature and you know look at Leviticus
1015 will'll tell you that's why that
hole is right there in in in the wheat
field or whatever but you isn't religion
itself what what facts are they basing
in it other than scripture I mean
religion itself takes Faith exactly
right religion self is belief in the
Supernatural whether you like it or not
now and and it's not a bad thing it's
just it is and so there's no evidence
that you have right now it's a story
that someone written down and you decide
to accept it as truth but and by the way
that's a personal truth right that you
feel is a universal truth but at the end
of the day you don't have evidence you
weren't there you didn't see The Parting
of the waters you didn't see the
Miracles and the and the the water into
wine you weren't there agreed entirely
and to your point that you brought up
earlier in the conversation it can exist
on the other side side of this with a
religion and UFOs or something saying
like oh were you there in Virginia in
'96 that's right you know what I mean
that's right which by the way can I you
make a really good point here which is I
think something I've never really
addressed if we're not careful with this
UAP topic if it hasn't already started
to it could become a religion and we
need to avoid that oh it has started
hope not because that is that that is
not the intent of these conversations
and it should not be it should not be a
religion and I am concerned that in 20
30 40 years 100 years 200 years from now
it could very well be a religion and it
should not be a religion yeah Lou I I I
I think it I think it already has become
that way and I think you're actually a I
guess like unwitting guinea pig with
that unfortunately because again you
talked about being the messenger with
you know just delivering a message here
and there's people who view that as
prophetic on the other end of it there's
people that also view that as whatever
the opposite is you know like the devil
so when I when I look at you this this
is a good time to go into this to to
Really address like head on where you're
coming from in the past episode 151 I
had Ron James in here who's talked with
you before for his documentary and then
episode 179 I had a Nick Pope I think
like three hours into Nick Pope's we
talked about yours Nick is another guy
who comes from government or whatever
and in in these conversations and in
some others a point where I've been
critical of you is based on the words
that you've said yourself in the past
and actually said to me before we we
were on air today which is is that you
know this this is a fact like you are an
Intel guy so I always joke and go all
right am I'm I'm like all right fed like
what do we got right here right but
online you see two things you either see
people who are like no he's been sent by
God you know not literally God himself
to deliver the great word of
UAP and then you have people on the
other side who are going who are like
you know abolish every three-letter
agency this is our scum bag fed coming
out here and doing whatever I was more
in the middle in the sense that I'm like
okay maybe may he just really is a part
of an op and he's read in on things that
I'm not so maybe there's a good reason
for that but I don't [ __ ] know so my
job is not to sit here therefore and
believe what he says because again he's
worked in the government and you know it
could be like if this is a topic I'm
interested in like I am in UFOs uaps he
may be saying things that are not true
maybe for a good reason maybe for a bad
reason too maybe you're a bad gu Lou but
like I don't know this now I see three
doors with you I'm going to maybe
there's like five but we're going to put
it down to three number one is you know
let's call it like the Steven Green
Street door he's completely full of [ __ ]
he's making it all up there's no record
of anything and I disagree with Stephen
on some of the evidence that he's un
that he's uncovered there but he's like
kind of the the heel to it right he's
the opposite the second door
is you're either mostly telling the
truth or like almost all the truth maybe
there's some things that you know you
reviewed the evidence and you got it
wrong but like you're out here and
you're actually giving all the
information and it's in a purely kind of
benevolent way like you've said where
you feel like you have a moral duty to
tell people things that they have a
right to know that Humanity has a right
to know to say nothing of the United
States of America citizens the third
door is it's a mix and the third door
could be that it's like you know and
this is a strong word to use but it
could be like some sort of scop where
let me just paint a picture here you
guys on the back end you know a 22-year
intelligence veteran if you're still in
a 29-year intelligence veteran you have
access to such crazy information that
you have been able to simulate how
Society may handle this information if
it was given to them to the point that
you are able to see using all your great
tools back there that like o this could
cause ontological shock or an
existential crisis if we just dump this
on people therefore someone like a Lou
alzando someone like a Chris melon
someone like a David grush could be sent
out there to reveal some truths in the
midst of other stuff that might not true
or more more likely revealing truths to
make it sound really important when when
in reality the crazier [ __ ] is over here
and you want to I don't know limited
hangout get people away to focus on this
so when you look at these three doors
obviously the first one you're going to
disagree with which is that you know
Lose full of [ __ ] his career wasn't real
yeah but when you look at the other two
doors could you see why people might
make the argument on door three there I
can see why people see all three
doors that's that's and there's more
doors than that
I I can I can tell you the door that
that I that I think I'm in okay you know
but it's it's it's a little different um
first of all let me put cards on the
table if you ask me to choose between
National Security and disclosure like
real National Security I will always
choose National Security I've never made
any bones about it I love my country and
I will protect and defend this country
period full stop um secondly
um I want government
accountability that's what I want
whether it's with this topic or another
topic there is a right way and a wrong
way to do things I am very concerned and
it's probably because my old generation
based upon the previous studies that
some people can find this information
disruptive okay what we call
catastrophic
disclosure I don't want
that I want constructive disclosure I
want to tell the American people let
them have whatever they can have legally
up to that point that they can't have it
anymore
but that's not my decision to make all I
can do is continue to try to push for It
ultimately it's the government
government's decision to do that and I
won't override the government I won't do
it I won't I I've made it very very
clear I am not trying to hurt or
disrupt our government I'm trying to
help it it backed itself into a corner
for 70 years plus potentially for
decades and now we're at a point that
people have the lowest level of faith
and confidence in our government and our
institutions why because we haven't been
honest with the American people oh the
the Pentagon never lies right unless you
talk about the Pentagon papers unless
you talk about you know Iran Contra
unless you talk about the Afghanistan
withdrawal I mean we we haven't been and
our government has done some terrible
things to people in the past look look
at the syphilis experiments we let
people die man I mean that's die
government killing people would never
happen yeah right so you know my my
point being is that
the government hasn't always been
necessarily looking at the best interest
of the American people but this is a
topic I think where I always believe
that that that America can handle the
truth I think America deserves the truth
and I think there's a right and wrong
way to have the conversation and I I I
want us to have a conversation like I
said both from a national security
perspective but then there's the other
part of the conversation that affects
everybody differently and yet equally
right whether it's philosophically or
psychologically or sociolog Ally or even
theologically my hope is that the
American people can have the
conversation for themselves and at that
point make the decision what it means to
you and then if at the end of the day
you guys say yeah great me get a Big Mac
fine but at least you had the
opportunity to have the conversation
right you can then you make that
decision for yourself and at that day I
go I'll go work at Walmart I'm cool no
sweat done but at least be able to have
the conversation that's what I want to
see happen that is the door I am in and
yes I am still very loyal yes I will
still defend my country and work for my
government if asked to and when asked to
but it's not either or it's like oh well
since he does that he must be not for
the people that's [ __ ] man that's
that's that's that's a that is a that is
a you we are creating a a fake narrative
we're creating a binary Solution that's
this is not a binary thing it's not
either or either you you're loyal to the
government you're loyal to the American
people it shouldn't be that way you
should be able to be loyal to both
that's what you should be and it can be
that way and that's what it used to be
and that's what it should be again
because remember government for the
People by the people it's not this big
monolithic thing there that's oh there's
government then there's a people CU if
that's a case and man we're lost we're
done this is then you know what forget
Society we'll go move to Canada or
something because that's not the way our
government was supposed to be people
died in wars we fought revolutions so we
could have that power so the people made
the decisions and you have a
representative government that are
interested in in the in the in the
interest and the will of the people this
is my we are going to lose the whole
thing if we don't recognize that it's
it'll be gone and then everything that
everybody's doing is going to be a
waste this is my concern and I know what
Revolution is because my family came
from it and people don't realize that
and all these little nit noids out there
in the Twitter sphere who armchair
quarterbacks whove never served their
country never served a day in their life
doing anything other than being selfish
and doing something for themselves have
no freaking clue what's actually going
on and they create drama they they're
not they're not interested in the drama
they manufacture the drama they're
actually out there wanting the drama
then they watch how it goes down oh look
look I made an impact someone made a
comment you know that is that is not my
focus that's why I don't deal with it I
don't care about it my focus is on this
type of conversation this is a national
level conversation and by the way it's
not just with UAP you can see it right
now look at the two people we have that
are that are that are vying for
president okay yeah now I'm not going
say bad or good about either one but let
me ask you this is there anybody else
probably maybe kind of sort of literally
qualified yeah right is that really
really really America's best no you know
or are we
just uh well you know what I'll go ahead
and compromise with you know that person
because that one over there I hate just
a little bit more right you know and so
and and we see this all the time and
then we see the active pitting against
each other there are people out there
that are these agent provocators that
thrive off of it you know wouldn't it be
great like online you're saying
everywhere even the media mainstream
media wouldn't it be great if a
president C candidate came out and said
you know what I'm not going to say
anything bad about my my uh opponent in
fact my opponent probably make a damn
good president but let me tell you where
we differ this is my perspective on how
we should fix things and then the other
person well this is how I think we
should fix it imagine that that'd be
nice instead of just throwing he said
she said he said she said which is all
it is which is all it is that's all it
is and it's to the point where we think
it's normal now it's like a Super Bowl
my team versus your team it's not it's
not a Super Bowl man this is life this
is our country it's not US versus you
we're all in this [ __ ] together man and
so forgive me for being emotional about
this but but this is this is what drives
me and when people try to put in a a
false narrative or try to you know well
L must think this or L must think that
you know what think for yourself don't
don't worry about what L thinks it
doesn't matter what L thinks what
matters is the facts and the details and
then make your decision for yourself
don't be lazy do your research right
understand what's actually happening
here and and don't expect some person to
give you a sound bite because now we
watch the media not only do we want to
know the news but we want we want to
know even what to feel about it right so
what do we do we turn into our little
Echo chamber depending on what side of
the aisle we're on politically and we
watch our shows and we're not willing to
watch oh I don't like them they're bias
hey don't look now dummy so are you you
know how about expand your horizons and
look at other sources of information and
start thinking for yourself that is what
this country used to be there used to be
a point where you could get on the news
you had no idea the political
affiliation of any of the reporters
because it was just the facts that was a
nicer world I got Walter KRON kite up in
the corner up there because absolutely
was a better world to live in in an
honest world to live in even when we
were doing dishonest things right and
this is my concern this is my concern
with with where we are now as a country
hey guys if you haven't already please
be sure to share around this episode on
social media with your friends Instagram
Facebook Twitter Reddit it's all a huge
help and I appreciate all of you who
have been doing that each week and this
is why it frustrates me so bad because
ultimately at the end of the day my
focus is not the UFO Community it never
has been it's on the other 9 9.9% of the
population that's never even considered
this topic seriously that's my focus and
through this we maybe we can have a
bigger conversation about what
accountability transparency and
anti-corruption that's really what I'm
I'm I'm hoping to pursue here this is
why this topic this is just one example
it's a big one a really big one but this
is just one example of things we got to
fix in this country but if if if you can
recognize and I agree with you that
we're living in a country now where
people it's devolved to such a point of
he said she said in [ __ ] that like these
are the presidential candidates we have
to choose from and it's a giant reality
show just at a high level one example
right there to say nothing of the rest
of the internet that we can all see I
can see how
psychologically people that you've spent
your career around sitting in serious
rooms like Skiffs that have seen all the
worst [ __ ] that this world has to offer
and know things through the literal job
description of your jobs that you know
we'll never know or you know maybe we'll
find out 100 years from now when it gets
Declassified I can see how
psychologically there's this boundary
that forms where suddenly you guys in
your group thinking this scenario are
like look we actually know what's going
on here and we're going to save the
people from themselves because they have
no [ __ ] idea what 100% there are PE
and this is this is one of the things I
explored because there are people this
is why people I'm so glad you brought
this up you could not be more
accurate there are people now who want
disclosure and they want their pound of
Flesh all these people that are part of
Legacy efforts put them in front of a
court and put them all in jail for lying
to the American
people I don't think that's the way to
do it I think what we do is we
incentivize them we give them an award
give them a promotion say Hey listen
great thank you for your interest in
National Security good job now it's the
time to have the conversation I think
that most of these people that kept this
so secret for so long actually believes
in their they were doing it for the
right reason I think there were people
out there who actually felt look we
already had studies done we know that
the American population can't take this
right now that they they cannot process
this information they're too worried
about Russians and nukes and all this
other stuff um we're not going to put
that as a priority right now and by the
way no use having this conversation with
the American people because we still
have no idea where they're from or what
they want or how it works or anything
like that right we're just now
scratching the surface so it's just like
when we were flying the U2 over Russia
and Russia never ever ever made an issue
you know we flew it in contravention of
an actual treaty with them that we would
not fly man reconnaissance missions over
Mainland Russia and what did we do we
built the U2 With the CIA and locky
Martin Skunk Works and we start flying
them and the Russians never reacted so
we thought hey the plane flies too high
and too fast they can't detect it the
Russians were were were were tracking
every single flight from day one the
only reason why they didn't make an
issue of it is why because they didn't
have a capability to neutralize it and
it wasn't until they were able to
actually successfully shoot one down
with an sa2 surface missile did they
tell the world the reality hey look what
America is doing right so why admit a
problem for which there is no solution I
can understand from a national security
perspective people in our own government
having that same mindset why are we
going to acknowledge a problem which we
don't even understand yet I get that I
don't agree with it but I can respect
that understanding I can un I can
respect that mindset and in their hearts
they feel like they really are doing
their patriotic Duty so from that
perspective I get it and back to what
you just said to me a bunch of guys
sitting around in skiff and saying hey
you know what these morons can't handle
it I'm not saying that's their attitude
I'm saying it comes it like it's like a
passive feeling that comes in like oh my
God if only these people knew you know
what I mean but that's every day in the
intelligence World brother I mean that's
listen there's I don't sleep all at
night because of crap I've learned and
it has nothing to do with the UAP
Community I mean I'm telling you there's
that's the cost of information people
say I want to know but you know you go
to the doctor doctor says Hey listen um
uh before we talk you want me to be
truthful with you everything right on
your your yeah I want my to tell me
about my medical JY um you sure you want
to be truthful with you yeah I want
you'd be truthful with me you have stage
four cancer oh [ __ ] I wish you would
have been truthful with me you know I
mean I would have been better off not
knowing that or going to uh a friend and
saying hey um listen um this fiance you
have um yeah yeah great guy great gal do
do you want to I've got some information
do you want me to share with you yeah
yeah let me know you
yeah of course I want to know they've
been cheating on you the entire time oh
I didn't want to know right
so in intelligence is like that you
learn things all the time that that you
know probably would be better off not
knowing but it's your job and so that's
not just with the the UFO stuff that's
with a lot of things National Security
there's a lot of things that would keep
people up at night fortunately we have
really good people in the intelligence
commun that are professionals and they
can do their job and their job is to
stop the worst thing from happening and
most of the time they're very successful
with that so you know if there was any
type of consolation prize in this is
that there are very very good people
very patriotic people who are who who
lose sleep every night so we don't have
to yeah um and that's why it's important
that we don't villainize everybody in
the government you know the moment you
said I worked into oh you're one of
those all right look it was a job okay
but we didn't do it to deceive anybody
else we deceiving the enemy not you not
the American people weren't the enemy
you know um denial and deception and
information operations and all those
things um you know you do it to fight
and win Wars you don't do it because
you're bored you don't do it because you
know you're just oh let's let's go
figure something out to go and be
disruptive that's not the way it works
um and I think that's that's part of the
problem we have in this conversation
because not our conversation but in the
bigger conversation because there's such
a lack of trust in the government now
this is why important now more than ever
we need to show good faith in the
government we have to do it and because
right now oh I see I thought you said
okay yeah yeah yeah so you see in the
context I'm trying to say here right so
this is again why this accountability
and transparency is so important now at
the end of the day is there a better way
to do it could be could be could I be
wrong in this approach yeah sure
absolutely yeah I think people are
always going to be skeptical because of
the fact that we've seen such as you
laid out yourself with some examples
we've seen such a breakdown in the trust
of in stions through some things that
they have done wrong which again and
this is this is unfortunate but my
friend Jared dillian who I had on the
podcast for episode
182 or
183 he is a former Leman Brothers guy
and he had this line in in a memoir he
wrote about Leman Brothers is that he he
put it like this he said there were
approximately 20,000 people who worked
at Leman brothers and I can tell you
19,994 of them were really good at their
jobs and tried very hard that's right
now I always amend it to probably 19,90
but you get the point it takes a very
small turd in the punch bowl to ruin
that punch bowl right and that's why in
government especially it's so important
this is my anti-corruption issue here
because it just takes a few people in
government to do bad things and the
entire government looks like crap and
this is this is another concern because
it's easy to blame the government oh
this government is Big you know huge
monolithic thing no government's just
made of people and there are some good
people really good people in government
and there's a couple that you know not
so good not not so good right and
unfortunately it kind of paints with a
broad stroke the entire government and
so it's important we don't villainize a
government don't you know it's like it's
like a police officer yeah there's a
couple dirty cops out there but most of
them are putting their life on the line
to save your ass you know and you know
they're they're good people they go home
they pay their bills they and they're
putting their life on the line every day
for you same with our military same with
our intelligence professionals but it
just takes one or two and now you've got
a corrupt Police Department that's right
now look if we're going to be fair and
we're going to be assessing the morality
and the actions of the government we
also have to look at the other side of
this which is something you outlin in
your book pretty well which is the the
contract side the the private side so
you learned through this program that
companies I'm just going to name a
couple here like Lockheed and Northrup
had been in I'll just use my own term
like in lock step with previous UFO
related things with the government to
the point that you alleg you you had you
saw evidence through the files you had
access to to show that companies like a
locked like a Northrup had been in
charge of UFO crash retrievals and given
so much Authority by the government in
this case as like a hand inhand military
industrial complex I guess in a way such
that the evidence recovered from these
were in places that you had no idea
about in the government and couldn't
ever access yourself therefore it's
pretty much on the private side for them
to potentially reverse engineer things
that you the government wouldn't even
know about correct that was kind of an
issue no yeah it was uh let's let's look
at a real real case scenario here um
let's look
at let's look at the uh the Apollo
missions okay and the early days of the
US government's Space Race and Race To
The
Moon um it was about 10 years it's when
Kennedy said we're going to put a person
on the moon and not because it's easy
but because it's hard etc etc and that
was in 1969 we we successfully landed
somebody on the moon that was a 10-year
Endeavor now we had to invent everything
from scratch to do that no one had been
to really space before and no one had
ever been certainly to another Celestial
body and no one knew what it was even
like and how to do it and how to get
there and what was involved the
Technologies uh and so we had about 9 to
10 years to figure it out maybe a little
less as a result of that over and think
about this 6,000
[Music]
200 Industries and
products have were invented and created
to do that so for example things like
the LED light bulb velcro right the CAT
scan these are Technologies in some
cases that have changed Humanity forever
have benefited our well-being all
because of a space race and a a
competition for for a little less than a
decade with a foreign adversary right um
these technologies have long out live
the initial purpose for which they were
created right
imagine a company that has access to
material or
technology and without Fair
competition able to do things and make
money based upon that now I'm not
against capitalism at all capitalism
works it's fantastic as long as we all
play by the same rules right capitalism
doesn't work when one company gets a
unfair advantage over another and there
en Life part of the problem because if
you have material that was in the
possession of the government and says
okay you can use this to analiz it for
us that doesn't mean you can just turn
around and start making profit off of it
and creating stuff that we don't agree
for you to to make that prop that
property belongs to the American people
that belongs to the government not you
let's let's let's make make that clear
up front you don't own that property
unless we sell it to you right um and so
there in lies part of the problem also
you have legal consequences so let's for
example example
say here we go company that's I won't do
that uh there we go we got this and we
got this company a and Company B on the
government right and I find something
interesting in the desert and I say hey
uh company a I want you to go ahead and
analyze that for me okay Company B don't
worry about that you just just go over
here and do your thing 10 years later
what happens company a becomes a
multi-billion dollar Aerospace company
company me what happens well they went
bankrupt 200 jobs were lost and the
investors who had that money in there
gone right what just happened well the
US government gave an unfair advantage
to company a instead of Company B right
they make the money they make the profit
now there are actual rules and laws and
regulations like SEC violations that if
if I do that and this company goes
bankrupt now there's a real legal
liability on my part because I broke the
law I did something that I wasn't
allowed to do because as a government as
a government yeah because I gave an
unfair advantage to one company over
another right there's rules and
mechanisms to do stuff I want a company
a material there's rules and procedures
to do that I can't just go and give it
to them there are unless they are a
prime contractor and they have these
avenues that are taken care of and blah
blah blah blah blah blah there are laws
against being able to give these unfair
advantages because why there is money
behind it they're in a capitalist world
people invested in Company B because
they thought they were going to be a
company that has the same type of Pop
potential as company a but we didn't
know that there was an unfair relation a
ship between couple people in the
government and Company a so here we're
going to slide that to you right it's
like all these sweetheart deals where
you're paying $22,000 for a toilet seat
for an airplane yeah right I mean what
well how does that happen well it
happens happens because someone in the
government has a sweetheart deal with
somebody here and they get away with it
right so we gave are you saying and
maybe I'm taking this a little too far
but are you saying we gave sweetheart
deals to certain companies as it
pertains to say UFO crash retrievals and
we had now created a beast that we
cannot tame it appears that may very
well be the case that may be one of the
issues that we're dealing with and if
that's the case okay well there's real
legal consequences how do we fix this
without you do you give them amnesty I
think you do people are going to say oh
you can't do that well listen do you
want the truth or not what's the cost of
it you know there's there's examples
where we do this Truth and
Reconciliation we did it in Rwanda we've
done it with other countries where we we
say look a lot of bad things were done
on both sides we're willing to forgive
all of it if we can if we can reconcile
and we can we can move forward together
towards the truth and I think that's the
way we do it this is why I said we don't
villainize those who were part of these
efforts I know it's easy people want to
do that and they want their pound of
Flesh and I say no I say yeah but it but
but the company on that end I want to
stick with your example here company a
if they became a multi-billion dollar
whatever the government making that
mistake is not their fault they just
reap the benefit of it so what incentive
do they have to come to the table like
what can the government legally say to
them you you allowed them to do it this
is part of the eminent domain
conversation isn't it ah yeah it is
which is by the way I'm not going to get
into it's very controversial but look
the government has the right through ENT
domain to do whatever the hell I want if
you got some and it's better and it's in
in the interest of national security or
national interest we'll buy your house
we'll put a highway right through it
we'll do whatever we need to do make no
mistake we will absolutely do it right
the same holds true with this the
problem is the government's been saying
no for so long it doesn't exist they
don't want it back they're I don't want
it you you you you keep it you you
figure out I don't want nothing to do
with that you know um so it's it's a
double-edged sword um this is you know
this is a very it's actually a great
conversation because it kind of
highlights some of the complexities
we're dealing with you know people just
say I just want the truth well but it's
not that simple it's not it's not just
okay here's the truth because the
consequences of that how you get the
truth can make or break something and
there are people there that don't want
that to happen well a huge problem with
the truth that people have with anything
involving the phenomenon is that as meuk
Kaku says we have no physical evidence
you know steal a pen for God sake steal
something do you believe in god well I
believe in the god of Einstein he
believed in God but not the god that
intervenes in human Affairs it was the
god of order the god of Simplicity and
elegance Einstein was asked the question
did the universe have a choice is it
unique so universes you you can create
universes in an afternoon but most of
them are unstable most of them fall
apart most of them don't work our
universe is stable it works everything
fits together and then the question is
what set off the bang that's what we do
for a living we have the Big Bang Theory
up to the point where the universe is
going to explode why did it explode we
think it was a Quantum event and we are
here because we are in the universe
which decided to explode so Einstein
said was it all an accident and he
thought no it could not have been an
accident you know and like I hear him
because you know like I I had Jessie I
just recorded with Jesse Michaels that's
be G to be coming out one or two
episodes after you but like he talked
about like the Bine that he saw and
showed it with Gary Nolan that Jack
Fil-A had brought to him so like maybe
there's something physical there but
like it's not like we have when David
grush came out who was able to like
remove the remove the curtains and say
Here's the UFO we recovered in 1933 and
it's the same thing with you you're
you're out here saying I've seen the the
evidence written up in papers and I
think you're also saying like maybe
you've seen some physical evidence too
but like C can you understand why
Skeptics out there are saying well this
is religious as well if we don't have
physical evidence yeah my response well
first of all we do have physical
evidence it's just you don't see it
because it's with the government and
it's or with the private companies with
the or the private companies right who
work for the government by the way right
so allegedly yeah or should anyways
right uh and uh and you're right you
should don't I'm not asking you to
believe me your government's already
told you that you you had a former
Director of National Intelligence
Radcliffe former director of the CIA
Brennan you had a former president of
the United States you had a president
just now a week and a half ago the
former president that said hey if I get
elected I'm going to release the UFO
files because the guy asked him would
you do it he said yeah I'll do it and by
the way I tried to do it before but I
got a lot of flack for doing it I mean
do it did well no but did you hear that
what he says he says I tried to do
before but I got a lot of resistance
wait a
minute you know what that means that's
ackn that's saying yes I've been briefed
to it I want to do it but someone is
telling me no so you know don't don't
believe Lando don't listen to L I don't
give a [ __ ] do say do your research man
don't be lazy get out there and and be
proactive read what's out there read
what people are saying people in
Authority who are telling you this not
forget L alzando you know it's there
yeah it's there you you don't you don't
need it from me all you need from me is
maybe a little bit of my background and
you know XYZ but there's already data
there there's already data there you've
already had an acknowledgement by the US
government in many ways of the reality
of this topic you've already had these
reports to Congress where they said look
every time we go and try to figure these
things out we have more not less right
government said oh we have complete air
domain awareness over our country what
happens if we start reali celebrating
our Radars to look for UAP boom
surveillance satellite from China are
just wafting over Northern continental
United States right
so if you if you look at the data what
the data is suggesting that is all I'm
asking people to do I'm not and this is
why I don't give my opinion because what
do you think L it doesn't matter what
Lou thinks what matters what you think
stop asking me that don't make me think
for you because that is a your ability
to look at information objectively is
sacred no one should be thinking for you
you should be thinking for you and so my
job is easy here's the facts and the
data you decide what you want to do with
it that is that is really what this
boils down to have you stood in front of
a recovered
UFO I am uh boy I can talk about what's
in the book because I got cleared for it
so let me say this I have had in my
possession material that was allegedly
recovered from a UFO it was very I
cannot say okay it was but I I don't I
have been told I was warned very very
clearly this I'll share with you I was
told several years ago that I could
never talk about crash retrievals or
material ever and I signed a paperwork
for it right so that in itself is should
be evidence for you but more importantly
than that it's only been recently I'm
allowed to talk about the one piece of
material because it's in my book and I
got cleared for okay let's talk about
that's I have to be I have to honor that
that so it just so you understand I'm
not trying to be evasive I just I don't
want to go to jail I hear you so uh
there is material that I've had um
access to that was clearly
engineered uh it was we had one of the
very best I can't say which one one of
the very best aerospace companies and
government contractors okay so you can
try to figure out who that was try to
replicate try to replicate I'm not not
saying one way or the other tried to
replicate that material and at a cost of
a million dollars and it broke the
machine they able to create this
material at a macro level a sandwich
between one piece and another
piece this material um up to three years
ago I don't know about now but three
years ago we could not replicate we
could not we did not have the technology
to manufacture
it when you look at this material and
you found that when we know for sure
we've we we we found it where it was
found temporally there's a problem
because this material has obviously been
engineered with a technology that at
least we're pretty sure we don't have
maybe the Russians maybe the Chinese
sure back in the
1990s 1940s definitely
not that is equivalent to us as if you
have a piece of material that says hey
this from 1940 whatever and you look at
you say oh wow that's pretty interesting
because we didn't have that
technology that's like going into as
I've said before going into into King
tutt's tomb for the very first time as
we've discovered it and as you chisel
away the plaster wall and you peek
inside you see a fully assembled 747 jet
it doesn't make sense they did not have
the technology to do that back then I
don't care what you think but there it
is right so how to get in there um it's
the same thing it's it's the same same
issue we have here if we don't even have
the technology
now someone did it came I mean it's it's
see from somewhere and when you look at
the atomic so we're go there's there's
three levels of of of analysis and maybe
it might be helpful if I explain it real
Qui so um I find this okay um that makes
noise by the way if you want to do it no
on the bottom on the bottom see the one
button now hit it okay what the he
you've got to be kidding okay little
known trick so imagine being Da Vinci
and walking in a desert in the 1600s and
finding this right yeah it'd be trippy
yeah so made of plastic uh and it talks
It's Magic right it's magic so um so my
point being it's kind of in the same way
um you know you D Vin you would never
expect something like this and would
have no idea its use right and
understand what a battery is and and how
this speaker works and the pl It's Magic
um there are three types of analysis you
would do first of all if I find this in
the desert and um I was let's say I was
Da Vinci and I had the technology first
I'm going to do is I'm probably going to
weigh it and I'm going to do a physical
analysis I'm going to say okay it's hard
it's solid it's made of some sort of
plastic material it weighs half a
kilogram roughly this Dimension um it's
uh not electric it doesn't conduct
electricity but something inside does
blah blah blah blah if that's
interesting enough that'll warrant a
chemical molecular analysis now I want
to see I know it's some Hard Solid
Surface but I want to see the
relationship between the molecules
themselves how are they arranged what
what is a relationship with the other
molecules in there well I analyze this
it's got some copper in it uh it's got
some lithium um it's got some plastic uh
polymer it's got some uh aluminum in it
right and if that's interesting enough
then I say okay I'm going to spend the
extra money I'm going to do a a I'm
going to do a atomic analysis at the
Nano level I want to see how the not the
molecules but how the atoms are actually
arranged because within the natural
environment there's a variation of
isotopes that we find here on this
planet and it turns out that they're
natural there are some that are not
natural and that's the reason why
speaking of King touch tomb this is why
it's kind of important because for
decades there was a little dagger that
we found in King tutt's tomb that we
just thought was a neat little dagger it
wasn't until we did the analysis on it
that we realize it wasn't from Earth the
metal came from a meteorite and we know
that and that's when all of a sudden
became important like oh my gosh that's
is why they buried him with the dagger
because this is made from meteorite it's
not from Earth right it's magical or
whatever there significance behind it
you know that by doing looking at
isotopic ratios at the atomic level and
how they are arranged and when you find
that atoms are arranged with such a
level of precision that takes a lot of
Technology it's really really expensive
right and the uses of for that are are
fairly finite at least from our own
technological perspective there's only
so many reasons you would want to invest
and making something with that level of
accuracy remember at a cost of a million
bucks we were able to put two pieces
together this is much much more
complicated than that so that is why
material analysis is so important that's
why when you come across a piece of
material that's been engineered and then
you find out when it was recovered right
that kind of changes you know you could
say yeah maybe Russia China has that
ability now or has in the last five or
10 years not decades ago and so that is
part of the compelling evidence and now
I'm not a material scientist but we had
people that looked at it right there's
people that that even to this day and
age in the government are analyzing
stuff can't say who can't say where but
they are interested in in analyzing this
type of material and it's happening
so I know I'm not I'm not scratching
your itch specifically but I'm trying to
have a conversation while getting around
any issues that might get me in trouble
I can't be specific but I'm giving you
an example of how you do analysis why
it's important what makes a piece of
material so compelling that's what makes
that material compelling yeah it always
[ __ ] with my head thinking about this
because you're assuming you have some
whether it be a crazy Advanced
civilization or future humans whatever
it is it's like these beings would have
so much more understanding of whatever
the physical world is than we do to the
point that I've always said like
wouldn't they be able to simulate
everything ahead of time like wouldn't
they be able to simulate a crash
happening or something like that so that
it wouldn't happen I mean you talk in
your book about your conversations with
how put off for example on Roswell where
he's he's got some fascinating thoughts
there but he's like hey it was probably
some sort of EMP interference from our
universe that [ __ ] with the craft
falling to Earth and boom now well there
were two of them and one of them we were
then able to recover and then the
Government tried to cover it up and say
it was a balloon so you know when you
see things like that it's like our way
less Advanced squirrel species is able
to have some capabilities that [ __ ] up
these civilizations so much that we're
able to even get evidence like that
allegedly yeah so your argument is that
you know we're the the monkeys on the
ground it couldn't these things if
they're those so Advanced how are they
allowed to be so vulnerable and
susceptible right yeah okay so uh we are
in a beautiful place here in Hoboken and
again I'll I'll be respectful of privacy
but I noticed this morning when I was
getting up and walking outside the hotel
yeah had this beautiful view of the of
of the Hudson I mean it's just gorgeous
just beautiful beautiful and um you know
it was only a few years ago that um you
had a uh you had a a what some call a
miracle here you had a commercial jet
yep Sully Sully and and and crashed what
you want to remind your audience what
happened so this was it was a Tom Hanks
movie later but they took off from
LaGuardia went up into the sky as they
were coming up Sully solenberger the
captain realized there were Birds the
birds came into the engine
suddenly the plane failed and Sully used
unbelievable skills that he had acquired
over 40 some years or something of
flying was able to pull it back around
right out here correctly as you point
out on the Hudson in between Manhattan
and Hoboken and basically land the plane
perfectly such that it didn't crash on
impact and split apart and saved
everyone on the plane yeah yeah amazing
huh if you're a
bird wouldn't you be asking the same
question these humans are so Advanced
How can a dumb bird bring down a jet
full of people and almost kill every
single human being a
bird that's a good parallel you just
gave don't forget to uh tip your bar
tenders in your
waitresses so so you think that that
some of this is just straight up a
mistake that because again maybe we but
let me counter argue that maybe we are
the the separation and advancement of us
to birds which is quite large let's be
honest maybe it's not nearly as large as
it is with these civilizations how can
we even know that like you talk about
you talk about in your book you talk
about in your book not knowing whether
or not this is a threat but treating it
as it could be and like maybe they're on
the on the battlefield getting ready for
battle right here and they've just been
doing it for the last I don't know 80
years specifically or something like
that because time is you know 1 second
to them what is 80 80 years to us like
you see where it gets a little
convoluted and it gets beyond what we
can even like have a scope of
intelligence well I do and this is why I
think this type of conversation is so
important because we you know we we are
always we're putting ourselves always in
that box of well you know
anthropomorphic if there's so much
advantage and I mistake remember we may
be dealing something that is uniquely
potentially not human at all right so um
it and it's hard it's hard to do that
because we are innately human how do you
how do you not think like a human if
that's all we do right so it is I can
see how it gets fuzzy I can see how
people get frustrated and they kind of
go through these mental gymnastics of
okay well you know there are millions of
years ahead of us well maybe not maybe
they're not 10 years 50 years ahead of
us you know we we we have evolved more
in the last hundred years
technologically than we have in the last
100 thousand yeah so so it's it's a l
Ric yeah it's a curve that's right and
so so is it possible that 100 years from
now that we're going to have the exact
same ability that they have possible
possible right they may not be million
they may just be 100 years ahead of us
or they could be from right here they're
just like I said little beasties we're
at the point now where we're beginning
to interact with them they've been here
all along baby we don't know
so we have to keep this is why I always
tell people in my opinion which I don't
like to do very often we should keep all
options on the table until they're not
on the table and are there people out
there in the government that know more
probably probably yeah and that they
should come out they should be able to
talk to Congress you know that's that's
that's what I'm trying to do is create
an environment where where ultimately
the conversation can be had and people
have the truth whatever that truth is
whatever whatever that truth looks like
give the people the opportunity to have
the truth and have the conversation for
themselves and then I'm done I'm out
well you're you're a veteran of this
game having been in it for the last 16
17 years whatever it is when you were
first read in and yet when you come into
it you're joining a guy like Hal put off
who's been read in for at that point
like 45 years oh brother let don't think
that that that fact didn't uh weigh on
me every single person there had more
experience than me by a lot um but
you're also you're you're there with
like Michael Jordan like how do you even
concept or conceive like you don't you
don't compete with Michael Jordan you
help Michael Jordan when you're on the
team and you come into the new team and
you're with Michael Jordan Scotti Pippen
you don't compete with them you support
them you're Steve cerr um not even that
I'm I'm I'm the guy who's in the
sidelines you know giving them
towels I'm the I'm the towel boy and the
water boy um no you don't you know and
and everybody has I think and God I
don't want to say everybody's a tool
because people a tool but the reality is
that I look at I look at all of us as as
Tools in toolbox and some of us are
hammers some of us are are wrenches some
of us are are screwdrivers and you don't
use a hammer to do a screwdriver work
yeah and you don't use a screwdriver to
do a Hammer's work right so we all have
our own skills just like you have yours
you know with your audience I could
never do your job I'd fail
miserably there are people in the
government have very specific Niche
capabilities and when you can bring them
all together that's what makes a
successful team that's why you Su you
have a great producer you doing what
you're doing here and you've got the
right people and the Right audience and
it's a team effort it's the same thing
with atip it's the same thing with
anything in the government whether it's
Special Operations or anything else it
is a team effort it's a team that
succeeds and there is no I in team in
fact I used to make a a point when I
talk to people about leadership because
everybody in government for some reason
thinks they're a leader and they think
rank means something no know I would
never believe that it's insane yeah um
and you know I usually tell people
anybody who says that they're a leader
probably isn't um because a real leader
never says it there What's Understood
doesn't need to be explained 100% And
you know I I in in government a leader
should never say the words me minor I
it's always us we and ours right this is
this is our team and and we succeed
together and this is my staff you know
get the hell out of here it ain't your
staff government people are paying for
it [ __ ] you know you're a manager
you're not a leader big difference you
manage people and by the way there was a
saying by somebody a quote that I used
to like where they um they say a a
manager will always say go
a leader says let's go and I would take
that even a step further a great leader
says I'll go first I'm through the door
first um and those are the signs of
leadership and and that is that is how
you succeed um whether it's Chasing UFOs
or it's chasing bad guys or or being a
politician um you know we are just so
used to people in these positions of
authority saying me mine and I you know
yeah and I'm the director and my staff
and my Administration well hold on there
Cowboy ain't your Administration it's my
Administration it's our Administration
we're paying for it right you just
you're just doing the job we ask you to
do that ain't your Administration that's
the people's Administration but we're so
accustomed to it we're so used to it
that we just accept it now yeah and I I
I reject it man I I think this is part
of our problem and it's not
just in the Department of Defense it's
not just in the CIA or in the
intelligence Community it's it's the
whole government now man and we are okay
with it
why why have we got so used to so
accustomed to to that mindset that we
just not only do do we not do anything
about it we agree with it well yeah and
I understand what you're saying and and
also like you're a humble guy but I
don't think there's from the
outside based on the story we've been
given which is what we can go off of I
don't think there's any evidence to not
say you haven't had a clear leadership
role whether you like it or not in and
whatever this is the disclosure movement
or something like that I mean you're
you're one of the guys this was a little
hazy for me just to so correct me if I
don't want to be a leader in this in
this in this convers we I shouldn't be
there should be no one more important
than anybody else but you're one of the
guys that's responsible or I think the
leader that's responsible for like
releasing the gimal video getting
getting getting those things sure I was
one of the first guys out of the plane
door but you know I'm not I'm not the
invasion Force brother I'm I'm not it's
this is where again well it shouldn't be
anybody it shouldn't be a who that's
that's my point to all this we there
shouldn't be any one person in charge
and I think that's part of why we're
succeeding now because this has been
such a Grassroots movement it has really
been something amazing this is global
man there are people all over the world
man that are rallying for for full
disclosure and that's not because of me
I mean they see you know me on a TV show
or something like that but but I didn't
make this happen this is I I think this
is a coalescing of of people really if I
had to if I had to really give anybody
credit it's you guys it's it's your
generation My Generation spent the last
70 years screwing this topic up you know
it's your generation that are saying you
know what we want the truth you know
what got the internet you know so I
think I think you guys you know my
generation has done a good job of
blaming you guys like it's oh you guys
in social media why do you always on
stuck on social media and YouTube look
we in my generation invented it right so
who are we who's at fault here ain't you
us
um I think we are where we are today in
this conversation because your
generation has decided not to allow the
the stigma taboo that my generation
impose on this conversation and you're
just having dialogue and that's really
why we're having the conversation well
and it's also the tools that are at our
disposal to be able to spread things
around the internet such that when we
get evidence like the 2004 fraver videos
the Fleer video or the 2009 gimbal video
which involves some of our carrier ships
and everything like we can at at least
look at something physical on the screen
and say oh [ __ ] right now you now you
saw the 2004 video for the first time in
2009 I believe right yeah that was
actually by Chad Underwood it wasn't by
fraver fraver was there as an eyewitness
but the video was actually taken by
another aircraft afterward by Chad
Underwood okay and that one again showed
the Tic Tac that was moving in ways that
would match some of the five observables
correct correct correct what what was
the first time you saw that did you I
mean you talk about being one of these
gradual guys like where you gradually
start I saw I saw other videos that's
just one I I mean that's it was there
were some that were I mean there's one I
really wish I could talk about it it was
an 4K ultra high definition
video anybody sees that video and
there's people in the Intel Community
have seen it and they're just like okay
yeah that that's a game changer I mean
that there's no doubt we're looking at
that at that point that that is not ours
um that's what frustrates me because
those videos are there there are people
uh that are aware of it a lot of people
it's kind of a bad kept secret at this
point the problem is how that video was
taken where it was taken under the
circumstances is very classified so I
probably won't ever see the light of day
convenient yeah no I got tell you look
honestly where where I was I mean I
looking at it I can say yeah that
probably shouldn't come out um you know
as as compelling as it is
because it it is there's reasons to keep
that that type that those there's a
couple videos there well more than a
couple that that really are sensitive um
because of the circumstances of of of
the collection uh that we were doing um
but there's other videos that I think
should come out I think you can scrub
the metadata out of it so you don't have
locational data um you know there's ways
where you can um depixelate if you need
to to allow something to be released and
I'm for that as long as we don't give
away sources and methods I think we
should be as open as possible the more
videos we can release the better and
look some of them might have prosaic
explanations which would be great right
okay case Clos on that one what about
these other 10 what about these other 50
what about these other 100 right every
time Arrow comes out with a report and
they try to and you know good on them at
least they're being honest with that
they're like yeah we had 144 incidents
that that we couldn't figure out and
then it became 300 then it became 600
then it became 800 right and the numbers
keep going up why because the more we
look the more we realize [ __ ] they're
out there man there's there things that
are going on that yeah that's that's not
our technology we know that because we
had no assets in the area at the time
and you know if that's adversarial
technology then we got a real problem
because God forbid God forbid that this
turns out to be adversarial technology
because what would that mean that would
mean for the last 70 plus years some
foreign adversary has managed to
engineer and
deploy this capability over our
sensitive military installation over
controlled your airospace
and has done so with complete anonymity
now where was China back in 1950s in the
middle of a famine yeah where was Russia
I mean yeah right it there's there's no
way and so this goes back to that
question what would that mean well this
would be the greatest intelligence
failure this country has ever
experienced eclipsing that of even 911
because despite the billions of dollars
that we spend trying to keep in a
competitive technological advantage over
our adversaries has been eclipsed by by
again order of magnitude by some s some
sort of adversary so you know it that in
itself is a is a problem people bring
that up as a counterargument well what
if it's for an adversarial okay well if
it is now we're in big trouble if it's
from back then we are even bigger
trouble but there's a third door here
and I got to play Devil's Advocate on
this and it doesn't by the way I know
what you say I don't I don't think it ex
there's so many different possible
sightings of UFOs and capabilities I
don't think this can explain everything
to be clear and I think mathematic just
to put my opinion out there so people
know where I stand I think
mathematically from what we even know
about the Galaxy there has to be
intelligent life out there somewhere
whether or not it's been here we can
have that debate but you know I agree
with you I don't think it could be an
adversary because they would have
already [ __ ] taken us at this point
that
said just in your program in the
Pentagon you had a situation where guys
like you were on such a small team that
people above you and Below you didn't
even know it existed that's correct okay
so who's to say that the same thing
doesn't exist with oh I don't know DARPA
you know where there's such a limited
number of people who are in on the that
thatal world that we have as our current
laws of physics yeah we had that figured
out after we paper clipped everyone in
45 you know what I mean let me just say
I hope that's a case I would love that
to be the case because then I can sleep
a lot better at night L sleep's better
at night the Nazis helped
us my point being is that we have the
technological advantage right I that
that this would be some sort of Blue
Force technology um unfortunately I
would not be able to discuss at all what
capabilities we might or might not have
uh regarding any type of exotic
Technologies look we got a lot of cool
toys if you even knew about it though I
if whether I knew about it or not I I I
cannot confirm or deny anything
regarding any type of Blue Force
capability what I can simply say is what
we don't have but I can't say what we
have I mean let me see if I can be more
Express explicit with this I
cannot tell you what we might
have and again and I'll take that a step
farther for you I'll say probably
mathematically statistically you also as
much as you may know there's a lot of
stuff that you and anyone else on your
team and on other secret teams in the
government don't know about each other
too that's how it's set ups we we we ran
into that all the time yeah absolutely
absolutely but the problem is someone
needs to be the belly button that's why
what 911 happened remember because the
CIA had information FBI had information
DD had information well it's useless if
you don't have somebody coordinating it
that's right that's a problem so yes if
these other organizations existed which
looks like some did then there needed to
be a single belly button and there
wasn't and what does that mean that
means that leads to to to waste of money
it uncoordinated effort you know which
is again what is it that's a that's a
dysfunction of the government so that
needs to be fixed that's the bureaucracy
I was telling you about the issue with
the bureaucracy and also therefore if
the bureaucracy set up so the
everything's in cells it makes it even
more difficult to get through the
various chains of commands the need or
the urgency to do certain things where
you know the information and yet people
above you who are assigned to make the
decision don't so I don't think there's
any better example of this than what you
allege in the book which is that you had
this thing called operation interloper
where you wanted to basically set up a
[ __ ] you know Master Honey Trap on
involving one of your carriers out in
the sea where a lot of trans medium UFOs
are allegedly spotted to basically set
up this enormous nuclear situation to
try to draw into the motherload if you
will whoever these beings are to come to
the ship and you were going to use some
sort of impetus to like clap them and
and collect the evidence and in the end
the government you know through the
chain of command they said you can't do
this yeah so you're referring to the to
the issue of compartmentalization and
you compartmentalize information because
it's so sensitive you want to risk any
type of compromise to it right so you
say this is really really secret so XYZ
XYZ the problem is if it's overly
compartmentalized the information never
gets to the person it needs to get to in
the first place and I I'd like to quote
real quick for inop you're talking about
it by the way um Jay was very helpful
with that he was really one of his
Mastermind yeah he was one of his his
masterminds him and we we put this
together but he really he did a good job
it's a shame it didn't it didn't get
approved because it was really it was
phenomenal uh he really did most of the
heavy lifting on that uh um so I'd like
to quote from my my friend Chris melon
um Chris melon is a uh from the melon
family the famous melon family so I
think Carnegie melon uh yeah think of uh
melon Bank melon University right Gulf
oil uh he's an incredible human being
though and he was uh he was a senior
staffer for uh Bill Cohen Senator Bill
Cohen and then later when Bill Cohen
became the Secretary of Defense he
brought him with him to the Pentagon and
became the one of the senior most
intelligence officials in in the the
Department of
Defense and Chris always reminds me um
even when I don't want to be reminded
because he's he's absolutely right he
says um we didn't win the Cold War
because we kept better Secrets the
Russians did we won the Cold War because
we knew how to move information more
efficiently than the Russians and he's
absolutely correct what does he mean by
that well classified information if I
collect information on XYZ and you're
the guy who needs that information to do
something with it I have a way to get
that information to you very quickly and
if you've got a colleague over there
that needs that information maybe Parts
x and z you know then how to get that
information to him very quickly right so
we start moving information very fast to
actually do something with it actionable
right you don't just keep a secret for
the sake of Keeping a Secret because if
it doesn't get to who it needs to get to
then it's useless it you're wasting your
time and your money secret information
is only valuable because you can do
something with it when you need to right
and this goes kind of through the
conversation I've always said about
secrets secrets a lot of people think
are like a fine wine where the longer
you keep a cork on it the better it gets
um and I disagree I've always told
people I think Secrets have a shelf life
they're perishable they're like
vegetables in the refrigerator and the
longer you leave them in the
refrigerator at some point they're going
to start to rot and they're going to
stink and then you're going to have a
bigger mess on your hands to clean up
and so secrets are only as good um for
the time that you need them and to get
them to the people who need it the
information otherwise you're you're
wasting your time and your money there's
no there's no reason to have classified
information or collect intelligence if
you're not going to do anything with
it so that is part of my with this the a
tip
conversation you need to have a single
belly button and this is why Arrow was
such a I think such a pivotal moment for
us for disclosure because now the
government's recognizing yes we need a
single belly butd now can they do a
better job yeah I think we all agree
they can do a lot better job but they're
getting there I think I think with this
new director we might start seeing some
some new Focus so I'm very optimistic
about that but was something like
interloper it was not in a place it
needed to be obviously couldn't do it
correct the right people in the chain of
command didn't know what was going on
and you can't talk about we couldn't say
UFOs yeah yeah but I'm saying for the
actual planned event you were
doing correct me if I'm wrong here it's
it's classified information exactly how
you were going to I can't discuss
exactly correct I can't I can't discuss
the the the the methodology um I could
probably go back to the Pentagon and
request permission maybe I I should yeah
let's do that let's give them on the
phone yeah St them up you got to go
through doser it's a little more
complicated it it took my book almost a
year to get through that process it was
like birthing an elephant um and still
then he they still redacted information
believe it or not a little bit I tried
like hell man to keep that I wanted the
whole thing to go through but um wasn't
much though coule names you know yeah
well no there there was there signant
Pages exactly whichit did they shorten
that meaning like was it way more like
it it would black out like 15 lines but
was it really like you know 1500 Lines
no it was 15 lines I made it exact I
wanted everybody to see exactly the
portion they didn't want you to see I
did that on purpose I want that's full
transparency right I can't sit here and
scream I want government transparency if
I'm not going to be transparent myself
so what you see is what you get that
book was put in and what you see in
those black lines is exactly the
paragraph or the line or the names they
did not want to released and I said okay
you know I'm not gonna I'm not going to
leak information yeah it wasn't it
wasn't in my opinion as some as just
like a person read I didn't I didn't
think it was like that much there was
there was one there I really wish they
would have left in because it would have
been an eye opener uh but I can't yeah
it was it was I'm sorry man it's not
remote viewing stuff is it no no no it's
it's a a particular UAP incident that
really was you know would have
definitely been another gold standard
but they didn't want me talking about
all right let's see if we can get it
later but the remote viewing thing is
actually on on that note interesting
because you you know you're making a big
claim in there you are also explaining
within your book that you did some
remote viewing yourself like when you
found out this was a thing with project
Stargate which allegedly had been shut
down and all that with guys like Joe MCM
monacle and for people out there
obviously remote viewing is the ability
to be able to see things that are
happening in in another place at another
time because you access what is that
thing called again the PC in your brain
the oh that's yeah the the quate paman
no but that's yeah talking am I mixing
up Gary Nolan yeah that's okay okay but
either way like you're able to do some
wild [ __ ] and there's also something
about a lot of the people who are able
to do this have some sort of blood that
ties back to Cherokee Nation yeah that
was some of the the analysis that was
done by by the medical professionals and
let me also stay for the record I never
thought I was really good at remot
viewing I think remot viewing is frankly
it's it's a vestigal capability I think
most human beings can do it actually
quite easily um I always say look you
know you're out of town you you call
your significant other because you have
this urge to call them and they're like
oh my God I was just thinking of you
right uh it's I am I my own person which
I don't like to do but my own personal
belief is that this is it's it's nothing
any anything woo woo it's just based in
science probably quantum mechanics a lot
of a lot of scientists now neurosurgeons
and neuroscientists believe that human
consciousness when I say Consciousness I
don't mean like the weird you world is a
but about the blossom I'm talking about
the the the cognitive
ability of the human being outside of
necessarily intelligence what what makes
you you right not your body and not even
your intelligence it's there's something
else that's uniquely you and that's what
we're calling Consciousness that some
neuroscientists are speculating it may
be actually a form of quantum
entanglement that occurs in the brain um
and that is what is that is where that
that lies that that that self-identity
that that sentience if you will um
it's possible that if that's the case
that remote viewing is a something we've
always had for a very long time before
we had the language skills that we have
now and the ability to verbally
communicate simultaneously in a language
all around the world um you know we
didn't have that before we were living
in tiny little little Villages and caves
and whatnot so when you came across
another human being there probably
wasn't much of a spoken language and
there probably wasn't much ability to
communicate so you had to be able to
identify if something is a threatening
or not it's kind of like when two dogs
walk into a room when they first walk
into a room there's some sort of
nonverbal communication that is
occurring and it's quite possible that
this is nothing more than a vestigal
capability left over when humans were
much more basic and maybe relied upon it
for survival you know this was a
survival mechanism you know is that
friend or Foe you know am I going to be
eaten or is he going to help me that's
right catch a tiger so um the problem is
that you know we always like to put
labels on things you know and I used to
give a a little presentation where I
would I would kind of H highlight that
I'd say look what is your what is your
uh what is your definition of when I say
parachute for example and I'd show a
picture of a parachute and um I'd say
you know what is parah comes from the
trunc it's it's a Latin prefix meaning
above meaning above or beside and so
when you say parachute you think of a
thing that shoots over your head and
helps you hit the ground with a with a
hopefully a thump and not a thud uh and
then I say what does the word paramedic
mean to you and then you know people say
oh it's First Responders and it's a
medic you know that's helping you and
then I usually ask people well what
about paranormal and then people will
see you just did it right there right
some people will smile kind of look at
you kind of crazy H you know why he did
that because there is a stigma
associated with the word paranormal now
I would submit to you the word
paranormal is no different than
parachute or paramedic in fact it just
means um something that is outside of
our current understanding of what normal
is current understanding current in fact
I would tell you I would submit to you
that the definition of of of anything in
science is Paranormal till it becomes
normal my cell phone 40 years ago
absolutely paranormal right the
electromagnetic spectrum absolutely
paranormal 150 years ago now it's
routine right so we have created these
artificial barriers in our understanding
of what could just fly just be Advanced
science um but because we don't
understand it we stigmatize it with
terms like Paranormal right and then we
have think of tinfoil hats and
Ghostbusters and things like that when
in reality it may not be it just may
just be
new science and so we have to kind of
limit that when you talk about remot
viewing people kind of put that into the
Paranormal category I don't think it's
paranormal at all I think it's probably
just some sort of quantum process in the
brain yeah I actually think your
explanation here this is one place where
it was way better than in the book
because in the book I think it maybe
it's just how it gets written on the
page sometimes it made it seem like you
had the superpower or something in in
some ways and I think that's where
people criticize you that's I don't
think so not at all no I think think
it's it's it's it's probably rudimentary
I think most everybody has it to some
degree and I wasn't even particularly
good at it so I think once you
understand how it works then were you
able to recover I forget were you able
to recover like some sort of data wasn't
there something involving like a
terrorist that you were able a remote
view into yeah yeah well I mean we got
some guys there was an ambush that was
set up I Hadad some some I get into it
but there some there's some people
colleagues of mine that were there for
and witnessed it um how did you see that
you know that's a whole another
conversation uh we we could sit here for
2 hours and talk about there's other
people that are way more qualified like
Joe mcmonagle and and uh some of the you
know engos Swan and some other folks
that are you know who you should have is
probably Hal pudol because he was the
Godfather of Mo program I will be very
excited he's he's the guy to have um he
is the Godfather of it he actually uh
I'll drive him here myself created it
for the CIA and then later on uh the
went it was called Grill flame and some
other names before that before it became
Stargate um you know I would often ask
him later on in my career we would he
would ask me I would tell him things
that we would do and you know uh ask him
to tell you about the uh about the Metro
DC Metro incident okay uh I I'll let him
tell you they say hey how Lou told me to
ask you about when he told you about the
90 days and the and the DC Metro issue
and then see if he remembers that yeah
now Lou I'd say I have one more question
for you but that's a lie but I only have
one more question for you strictly cuz I
have to get you the hell out of here in
a couple I'm a Gemini I like long walks
on the beach and uh P coladas that's
what you're going to ask isn't it no but
we I I want to if if we can I I'll talk
to you off camera afterwards I want to
get you back here in November because
there's a lot including that last topic
right there that we got to go deeper
into and of course I'd love to talk
without put off that' be incredible but
you know you talk about still being
religious yourself and being you the
word you use in your book is spiritual
and now you've had access to so many
things that relate directly to the
meaning of life so through it all do you
as it currently
stands do you believe in God
absolutely um I think I think knowledge
reinforces it might religion uh it might
it might modify a little bit of our
interpret look information doesn't
threaten God all it does is threaten our
understanding of God and there's a
difference right there's a big
difference here it's like when the
church with Galilea oh you're going to
be so the fact that you're saying that
the Earth is not the center of the solar
system you're going to be going against
religion no actually what you're doing
is you're reinforcing the notion of the
of the preeminence of of of of something
bigger and greater and that the universe
is much more complex that we could ever
possibly
comprehend
um and that's been my experience this
hasn't threatened my my spirituality at
all in fact it's reinforced it
significantly wow yep all right we're
going to have to dig into that next time
thank you so much for doing this I I
really appreciate the fact that you know
you have answered a lot of tough
questions today as well no my honor
privilege I'm still I'm still going to
keep some of my skepticism but there's
other things that I I I think you have
really good Arguments for hey healthy
skepticism is important I I'm not asking
you not to be skeptical about things I'm
asking you not to be a skeptic there's a
big difference healthy skepticism is
important because it takes it takes all
sides to have the conversation agreed
you know and I think the fact that we
can do this here in a civil way
respectful of each other is proof that
you know some of the folks in the
community can do the same thing you know
and stop throwing arrows at each other
and and and being petty let's let's yeah
let's work together right as much as we
possibly can let's focus on the 80% of
the stuff that we agree on and maybe
table the 20% that we don't fair enough
well Lou thank you so much I'll see you
again soon congratulations on the book
and all the success well deserved
everybody else you know what it is give
it a thought get back to me peace and
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