YouTube Channel: "Glenn Beck" Video Title: "Former Gov't UFO Hunter: Evidence We Are NOT Alone | Luis Elizondo | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 226" Former Gov't UFO Hunter: Evidence We Are NOT Alone | Luis Elizondo | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 226 226,124 views Premiered Sep 7, 2024 Are we alone in the universe? This week’s guest believes the answer is clear: “NO.” Luis Elizondo says he has held the unknown material recovered from Roswell in his own hands. He directed a secret government program – AATIP – for the Department of Defense that studied UFO/UAP sightings connected to our military. And he even tried to create a “honey trap” for UAPs that was mysteriously scrapped by a high-ranking official. Now, he has written down everything he legally can in his new book, “Imminent: Inside the Pentagon’s Hunt for UFOs.” Lue joins Glenn to address the biggest questions surrounding UAPs as the government releases more and more evidence that something is watching us with technology beyond our comprehension: How do we know these sightings are real? What was recovered at Roswell? What’s held in Area 51? Why do UAPs seem to like water and nuclear sites? Are aliens demonic? What was Project Stargate? Is “remote viewing” real? Do UAPs use warp bubbles to travel? And why did he decide to go public? Plus, Elizondo reviews some of the biggest UAP-related events that the government is interested in: UAPs reportedly intimidated and injured soldiers in Colares, Brazil; two military personnel were 100% medically disabled by UAPs – and he held the documentation; “foreign bodies” resembling tissue-wrapped nanobots have been removed from individuals. And these are not isolated events From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kimMdMCmPfc Transcript: from the dawn of time there have been two main questions that have dominated the minds of all humanity is there a God and what happens when we die by the 15 and 1600s the arrival of the Renaissance a third question began to pop up a man named uh Nicholas cernus he theorized that it was the son and not the Earth that was the center of the universe if we were just some other Rock revolving around bre you know the the Sun and rest of the Rocks around an energy source wait are we the only ones out here three questions became is there a god what happens when we die and are we alone in the universe now we can answer the first two at least for me um but I don't know on the third one I mean I think I know what I know what I believe but I don't know who to believe on this alien and UFO enthusiasts in the modern era have been searching for that answer for decades two big years stand out for me one is 1947 with Roswell and the other one is 2017 when an article popped up in the New York Times that showed detailed footage of what appears to be a UFO taken from a US Navy pilot we've talked about this several times on the podcast but my guest today is the reason why this footage was viewed by millions the world over we all wondered for decades is our government looking into UFOs are they hiding it well you're about to hear from a man who directed one of those programs for the Department of Defense at the Pentagon he says he knows all the details about what was written by the New York Times in 2017 he also claims to know what really happened in Roswell back in 1947 he talks about it all in his new book imminent inside the pentagon's hunt for UFOs are we alone in the universe get ready for some strange encounters with Lou elzando before we get into the podcast how many how many people love puppies right they're sweet they're cuddly they're great what's not to love but can you imagine 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it's pound 250 keyword baby or go to preborn docomo [Music] [Applause] [Music] docomo great to see you again how are you it is always an honor and privilege to be with you thank you very much Glenn how are you I'm doing great uh I'm I'm doing great I have to tell you I'm I'm listening to your book on uh audio and it is I mean I don't even know what to think I I really it is so crazy you go into some crazy stuff um let me just let me start here at I think the the basic question that everybody would want to know there was a movie in 2018 called UFO and at the end of the movie there's an FBI agent who asked the main star do you know what this means and the star after a dramatic effect he says it means we're not alone in the universe so are we alone well um no we're we're not alone uh and first of all let me apologize if you're listening to my audiobook I have the silky smooth voice of a cement truck in high gear going down Mountain you were great so I actually thought how you were really good at it I thought it was really good I appreciate it I uh you know unfortunately I'm not I'm not a voice actor so what you see and sometimes what you hear is what you get um yeah I mean this this I wrote this book for for one very specific reason um and I explained to folks years ago I knew this was going to be a very lengthy process uh and I knew it'd have to go through the Pentagon for Security review um you know when you write something it's it becomes indelible um there are reasons why the spoken word and the written word um are treated slightly different um over you know an interview like this is great but over time these things kind of get hidden into the ethernet and bits and ones and zeros uh whereas spoken word is indelible it's forever it outlives the individual for for a long time and it's the reason why you know for example Egypt wrote uh The Book of the Dead on Papyrus right and why the Magna Carta was written on parchment because serves as a written record and hopefully will outlive me but more importantly this book went through the Pentagon for Security review and that's important because this is not just words I put on paper um it was my experience and the experience of other people that I I was with and it turns out that the government for a very long time has had UFO programs plural and uh and what they found in some cases was was astonishing um and yeah I know how people are probably taking this and they're probably like well what do you mean and and do we know and and has the government said anything and you know all that kind of stuff so Lou you know right now there are people who are saying we never went to the moon uh you know I've talked to the astronauts that have walked on the moon I am convinced we went to the moon um you know it screwed a lot of them up because it was the greatest thing if you've ever talked to Buzz Aldren uh he got lost when he came back from the Moon uh cuz there was nothing greater that he could do that um but you know when you when you're talking about UFOs or um what are they called now um UAP UAP yeah yeah when you're talking about uaps um we have no reference at all that is trustworthy I mean you know let me go back to the movies um Mirage Men I don't know if you've seen that but uh it's a documentary it's it's uh told of an Air Force OS I um you know a special investigations agent and his operation was to deceive UFO enthusiasts um and one of his targets was driven clinically unsane because his job was to make people think that UFOs were real to cover up government stuff and we're living in a time where nobody trusts anything that comes from the government nobody trusts anybody who's been in intelligence anymore unfortunately um so so how do we how are we to gauge what's real and what's not yeah I I think you that's a great question Glenn because we have to always remain critical of our information sources and and unfortunately as a society we've become very lazy over the last several decades uh and we're used to having information spoonfed to us and no longer is it even just information but we want uh you know the old Burger King saying we want it our way we want it now right um and if you can if you can crunch in if you can compress in a f minute snippet a narrative that not only tells you what I think I need to know but maybe even how I should feel about it that's what has happened unfortunately with information these days and you're right you know the government has a long history and the Pentagon has a long history of lying and deceiving people one could look very simply at things like iron Contra and the Pentagon papers and the the Afghan anistan withdrawal recently right where we say one narrative and then it turns out to be the exact opposite only after they've been exposed for that and I think that look so back to your question you know how do we know it's real well I think when you start looking at the Historical records that are out there and there are historical record government sourced information and intelligence reports that have been released by the government through the foyer process when you start looking at some of these UAP reports going back in some cases to the 19 50s and early 1950s this paints a very compelling picture that what we're dealing with is something very real um this is before really even the height of the Cold War this is we had just entered the atomic age we had barely broken the sound barrier we did not have a sophisticated propaganda propaganda machine in full swing until a little bit later so when you have these reports of these UAP over our National Laboratories they are there's radar data on these things there's eyewitness testimony and in some CA cases even footage film footage um that's a little bit different right than just someone saying hey trust me bro there's there's UFOs out there um and then you have go ahead no no please finish no no that's it so there's there's it's it's not just now people are looking to the media now and saying oh wow this is you know all this has occurred in just the last seven years it really hasn't the government has had a long vested interest in this topic for a very long time for very reasons and it's not just our government it's there's other governments Russia China other governments that are very interested in this topic as well and have been for a long time so when you were brought into your first meeting where you thought holy cow there could be some truth to this CU you you hired Skeptics you were a skeptic you weren't you know you're not out with a you know run and chasing for aliens all the time you didn't even think about them when you were first asked um correct so what was the first briefing that you had where you thought holy cow this might be real well you know for there's two there's two ways people usually in my experience kind of absorb this information the first one is this almost this Epiphany this Revelation where it's this aha moment where people go oh my gosh it's real and then for others probably in my case um where it's more of a slow steady gradual realization uh I was never prone to as a kid a science fiction buff um you know my my background in college was was science uh microbiology and Immunology so I'm a disciple of the scientific method methodology and principles yeah and then later uh as a as a special agent you know I always consider myself just the facts man kind of guy uh but it comes to a point where you start getting information and evidence that's so overwhelming and let me caveat we're talking military sources right we're not talking about Grandma seeing some lights you know in the backyard we're talking about very sophisticated military equipment in some cases some of the most premier aircraft on the planet with the most premier sensor systems on board so you have fighter pilots top gun fighter pil Pilots that can identify the difference between an s22 a M25 and an F-16 from 10 miles away and recognize immediately Friend or Foe right do I shoot it or do I save it on top of that that those observations are being backed up they're being validated by Optical data gun camera footage Fleer footage right and then on top of that that data is being backed up by radar data right so whether it's it's Airborne radar like the E2 Hawkeye or the Spy one radar on board a TA tyoga class uh ship um these are some of the most premier sensor Suites on the planet and and there's other capabilities which I can't talk about because they get kind of sensitive but so so it's not just one source of information you have eyewitnesses you've got gun camera footage and radar data all saying the same thing at the same time at the same place under the same circumstances right so now let's put that on the backdrop of with my background as a as a former special agent you know if you were to go to trial you're well beyond Reasonable Doubt right now you know this isn't just eyewitness testimony this is data sensor uh information that we're getting that allows us to prosecute and win Wars right and so I think that's what's important for me that is where that is when I began to realize I mean I heard a lot of interesting stories general uchoa for example from Brazil when they ran their investigation in kadus Brazil very compelling but at the end of the day I wasn't there I didn't see it right but when you have the data and you are in the office you're in a skiff and you have the the the videos coming in the classified videos and you're looking at them from all the various platforms that that becomes very compelling so can you talk about what you can talk about cuz you in your book you you talk about Karas Brazil and were in a briefing with a Brazilian Air Force General um can you talk about that and what you heard in the briefing that is not top secret sure and it's been substantiated by the way by other military members of the Brazilian military so this was a this was uh an event that occurred over several days in a place called kadis Brazil um there were some locals that were reporting being being um intimidated and in some cases injured by by these strange things in the sky we we call them of course UAP or in vernacular UFOs and as Fantastical as that may sound the government of Brazil launched a full field investigation into this and it turned out that when they went down with their military personnel led by General uchoa at the time um they had sustained injuries and uh they witnessed firsthand according to them these UAP interf intering with the local Village in some cases um injuring individuals and even some some Brazilian military members being injured as well so how do how do you mean can you describe the injury what what kind of injuries are we talking about sure well some showed signs where significant blood blood loss others showed what appeared to be some sort of directed energy type injury uh maybe significant with something I would I would say probably is that's significantly similar to what you might expect from microwave energy exposure um some had redness of the skin there's a full morphology on on some of these injuries but Glen I think that the bigger the more important aspect of this is this is not an isolated case there are other examples around the world where people have reported the same thing but more more importantly even than that as interesting and compelling as that may be it was not my focus it was not our focus our Focus was really focused on the military and Cur US military encounters with UAP over our controlled airace and over our sensitive military installations so were have any US military people been injured by uaps yeah I think the American public would be shocked there are two individuals that are now on full medical disability I actually saw the medical records myself held them in my hands uh and Senator John McCain late Senator John McCain was instrumental getting their their medical files released in the first place um they had a UAP encounter in England in the early 1980s in rendlesham and it states for the record their 100% medical disability is associated with an event that occurred there in rendin the UAP event so so the government is already in a in a way soft acknowledging the reality things you don't put somebody on 100% medical disability if there's nothing to it so um you know the these are just small examples there's a a medical doctor I won't say his name uh who's had many many patients who he's looked at that uh have claimed to Military and intelligence Personnel who have claimed to come into contact or up close with the UAP and have sustained uh medical medical complications as a result you said you held it in your hands what what what did you hold in your hands it was a document from the US government uh full for full medical disability for an individual where they said yes we are giving this person full medical disability uh because of their their their involvement in an incident at r that was the incident the UAP incident so um can you get into the incident where they terrorized were they close to something was there a beam what yeah there was military personnel in fact there was a a colonel Holt uh if you if you ever get a Charles Holt if you get a chance there was an audio that got leaked this was uh a very senior person on the base um they kept encountering these these UAP near the air field over very sensitive facility I can't say it was necessarily there but there was a very sensitive uh capability that the United States had there and these UAP uh seemed interested in it in some cases some reported them over near the flight line in other cases they were over the the forest Ron forest and one of the individuals who was launched who launched the investigation on behalf of the base commander uh had a recorder in a digital Rec think I think it was actually an analog recorder tape recorder in his pocket and he recorded uh the events of when they were going out to find this UFO that that was reported by by by the police by special police Air Force Special police out there and um so I'll give you kind of a little background here they go out and they're investigating um these these these likes these strange things near the base and uh two individuals two enlisted folks who were cops at the time for the base decided they were going to go out as well into the forest and try to find these things and uh apparently they they did um it's not my story to tell it's you can look it up it's it's called the renam incident or bentwaters incident U these two individuals despite what anybody says um will tell you their their their version of the story and they are on medical disability by the US government because of it because they uh got injured um they sustained some sort of injury uh and it has affected them long term um they have claim again I don't want to let the cat out of the bag because it's their story to tell but they claimed to have come into contact with got very close to this UFO uh and then woke up a little bit later and and uh kind of meandered back to to back to the base and um reported it and it's it's a fascinating fascinating now this occurred well before my time this is you know 1980 81 time frame so um you know I wasn't there but what I can tell you is that there's enough documentation uh and eyewitness testimony from the people who were there that it is it is very very very compelling uh is there any um uh evidence of implants you talk about that a little bit in your book can you go deeper into that sure sure I I know it sounds crazy and cooky U but there have been some individuals where foreign bodies something that was not there before had been removed uh from individuals in fact there was a very very senior Cia official an intelligence official who I will not name here uh I think they may come public at some point him and his wife had a had a terrifying encounter and uh some of the medical doctors back at the organization there that they worked at uh removed something from them um and again it's not my story to tell but what I can tell you is that there's there's a significant amount of information to suggest that some individuals who have claimed to have come close to a UAP have had objects removed from their bodies and the objects that are removed from their bodies are very unique they have it's like a cross between uh think of a technical device I don't want to say chip because I think it's you know people say that it's not relationship it's some sort of uh foreign body there and it has encapsulated itself with with tissue uh to what it appears to be to mask itself from the autoimmune response of of the human body so whenever you have something put inside you the body's always trying to reject it and get rid of it there's a what they call an imuno Cascade that that occurs with white blood cells and that's why you get you know bruises and things and infection because your body's trying to to fight whatever is inside you in this particular case it does not seem to be an immune response and these things seem to be highly motile which means maneuverable um which if you can imagine go through the body yeah yeah there like a nanobot almost almost like yeah but that but think about that from a from a Immunology perspective at least from the world I come from there are there are there are microorganisms are called Spyro that do that the problem is is as they whip through your body they create this incredible trail of Destruction and the body reacts to it but that doesn't seem to be the case with with some of the things that they're removing from Individual veterans by the way in some cases even the Department of Veterans Affairs has removed these things and then when they look them under a microscope in some cases they seem to have their own metabolism meaning their their own ability to either store or use energy even after it's removed from the body um and so very compelling I am I'm going to tell you right now I am not a doctor a forensics doctor uh I'm certainly not going to tell you that I can validate and verify what the doctors are saying because I'm not a doctor I'm just repeating to you what some of the doctor's analysis was in some cases one was was particularly upset by it and said look I I don't want to look at this anymore um I don't know what it is it's doing things that I'm not used to seeing something like this do it shouldn't be able to do this and I really don't want to be involved with this wow um it was it do you think sending information back we don't know uh we don't know I mean look we we as human beings do this all the time in the African sereniti we get in a helicopter we shoot a microchip into an animal uh to look at its O2 intake its blood you know it's iron levels I look I've I've got four German Shepherds and I I put I chip every one of them right in case one by chance gets lost um there's all sorts of reasons not necessarily transmitting anything uh in this case like with dogs it's a passive device but who who knows U there are people that are looking at these things that are doing some study in them um I I have to be very careful what I say because there's Hippa and patient confidentiality rules that apply uh but it's it's intriguing enough to say you know there's there there is something unique about these things so have they have they used technology to interfere with any of our technology you talk a little bit about icbms yeah yeah there's there's reports of that too Glen that have been released over the last few years um the government has actual reports on UAP interfering with our icbms um and in fact some cases um taking offline an entire flight a flight is a bunch of different missiles kind of daisy chain together and and coordinated uh you know from a central location uh and there are reports intelligence reports official US Government reports in fact a lot of them are online now because the government released them where they spot these luminous objects coming over a particular flight or a missile silo and all of them now going offline and if that's not if that is not concerning enough um there's information to suggest in Russia they've actually turned them on um so you know we we're paying attention any country put this you know take U apside any country that has the ability to fly undetected into our controlled us airspace over sensitive military installations and interfere with our nuclear response capability part of our our our nuclear Triad um that's extremely problematic because that means maybe we're not as ready and to and capable to respond to some sort of uh Nuclear Strike so so think about that for a minute so it is it is a very significant concern for for us this seems like you're describing something mivan I mean well we have to be careful that don't we I mean we we could say malevolent but you know some people will say well you know they're interfering with our nukes because they don't you know they don't want us to blow ourselves up okay fine but you know we already did I mean I hate to say it but Hiroshima and Nagasaki right I mean right and they didn't stop the testing from going from the atomic aids to the nuclear AIDS it didn't stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons to now getting into the hands of you know a dozen other countries uh they didn't stop Chernobyl Three Mile Island or Fukushima um so you know I I don't know if there's any information to suggest that they are necessarily benevolent maybe there is um and then you know there's the other option maybe they're neutral maybe maybe whatever it or they are are just interested in observing us look we do it all the time um with other other species on our planet and so when you when you ask about your question about seeing about being potentially malev that ascribes some sort of intent and right now we have no idea the intent we've seen some of the capabilities which is important because that's that's half the calculus to determine if something is a threat from a national security perspective you have capabilities and you have intent now we've seen forance some of their capabilities and they can outperform anything that we have but we still have no idea the intents and so therefore we don't know if it's a threat we don't there's a uh Glenn I don't know if you remember this uh I think last time I used an analogy with with you and your audience um you know I I think we agree that most of us you know we live in nice neighborhoods safe neighborhoods but most of us still lock the front door at night before you go to bed I know I do do you yes okay so some people might even go an extra step and they might lock the windows and even turn the alarm on before they go to bed Imagine One Sunday morning you come downstairs for a nice hot cup of tea or coffee and as you come downstairs um you see size 12 muddy bootprints in your living room carpet that were not there the night before now no one's been hurt nothing's been taken but despite you locking the front doors and locking the windows and turning on the alarm there's now bootprints in your living room that were not there the night before so my question to you is is that a threat and I think the response is well it could be if it wanted to be so we should probably do our due diligence and figure out how this is getting in here right how how whoever is making these Footprints we got to figure out how how they're getting in here and so that's kind of the same analogy here um you know these things are coming into our controlled us airspace are outperforming some of our most sophisticated military equities there's not really a whole lot we can do about it um is it a threat you know well if it was let's say a an airplane that had a Russian star on the tail or a North Korean tail number yeah sure it would be you would see you would see a huge reaction by the US government and we would scramble two f-22s and get it out of our airspace but because these things don't have a tail number or a Russian star some cases not even a tail or wings or obvious signs of repulsion nobody wanted to have the conversation it was cricket um they were basically told do not report if you see a UFO you see a UAP don't report it which is really antithetical to everything that you hear you know about when you go to an airport or a train station see something suspicious say something this was an exception to that rule nobody wanted to have the conversation despite the overwhelming evidence we had from the US government at the time it's enough of a struggle just to live our lives and try to keep tyranny at Bay day after day without also having to deal with pain on a regular basis if you're in constant pain um or just occasional really bad pain um you can be count You Can Count yourself out we need absolutely everybody in this fight you're here for a reason now the biggest cause of our pain is inflammation in our joints I know because I used to have it in my hand really badly I couldn't button my own shirt sometimes uh I'd have to get my my wife would get up in the morning and button my shirts I couldn't do that um what changed in my life was my wife insisted that I try relief factor I didn't think it would work for me well I got my life back you might get your life back as well there's only one way to know if you're living with aches and pain see for yourself how relief factor a daily drug-free supplement could help you live and feel better every day join the over 1 million people who have turned to relief factor and uh and have start feeling better in 3 weeks or less just visit relief factor.com call them at 8004 relief 800 the number four relief save on your first order that's 800 the number four relief relief factor.com so you talk about Roswell and that's probably the most famous UFO kind of thing um and you say that it happened and that uh it crashed um have you have you seen why do you why do you know that how do you know that that this was real and yeah so for for several reasons um one was some of our scientists in our organization had made that claim but they also backed up that claim and there was material that was allegedly recovered um I can tell you definitively when looking at the material it is very very unusual some scientists had done some research on it um to this day we were I shouldn't say that about three years ago I think we finally got to the point where three or four years ago where we were able to to at the macro level bring together the two materials we saw in this in this this material uh and to this day we still cannot replicate um the physical properties the physical aspects of the material that was recovered and when you ask some of the the best and brightest in the Aerospace corporations they say look we have no idea what this would be used for and we still can't replicate it well okay that's that's interesting but who can right and they say well you know it's possible country X or country y now has that capability okay well what about 50 60 years ago and you get back this you know big stare and like this no one had that capability is is the response and I liken it to going into King touch's tomb for the very first time in the 1920s opening it up the Vault and seeing a fully assembled 747 sitting in there it doesn't make sense temporally they did not have that technology and the same thing is with some of this material in some case we still don't have the technology and so but but there it is it's engineered someone put it together so so tell me what what is what happened that day and what is left where how much of this material um were there bodies yeah tell me what happened that day so as a report goes there was actually two there was actually um two incidents um there was two crashes not one uh and uh one was partially recovered and there were there were biological specimens inside uh allegedly four and they were very quickly whisked away taken to the military base to lock them down they didn't want the locals touching them or getting getting a hold of them and um of course we know what happened after that which was this campaign paint to say oh no these are myar balloons and stuff like that you know these were Crash Test Dummies that came down well that's interesting because we weren't using dummies back then for some of these tests you know we weren't using dummies until later so um these these specimens were looked at I don't know where they went after that um and where the material went after that the the the trail gets kind of cold turns out later that there was another uh US military installation wri Patterson in Ohio that also was involved in looking at Material of of crashed unknown vehicles of Unknown Origin and um yeah it's uh there's even some some very interesting document documentation um out there if you know where to find it again that's completely unclassified anybody can look at it there there's a a site called The Black Vault uh the gentleman who runs that has a huge huge huge library of Freedom of Information Act releases that the US government the CIA the FBI the NSA the Department of Defense the DIA have all released over the years and there's a treasure Trove of these documents and when you start reading these documents and realizing these are official government documents to the director of the FBI from the director of the FBI to the director of the CIA the National Security Council these are real these are legit you know this is not Lou alzando telling you this this is your government telling you this and I I think this is part my government always lies to us so yeah sure sure yeah I know touche of course uh but you know a lieutenant colonel that's there in the field writing a report they're not lying to you you know a politici maybe you know a senior person that's uh trying to cover their butt yeah but you know a low-level Lieutenant Colonel who's there who's an MP military police who just writing the report to his General that's they're not lying to you that's that's a real report written by a real real individual about a real real occurrence so have you been allowed to see any thing I mean assume there's been other crashes uh have you been able to actually see this evidence with your own eyes the actual physical evidence yeah I actually gave a briefing to a senior member of the Department of Defense in 2017 several briefings about the material that I that I I I've personally H have held in my hand I I I have held it in my hand and so have other individuals that but I'm not going to say who they were that worked for AOS very very high-end aerospace companies um best of the best and they're looking at this from an engineering perspective and they're they're scratching their head they're saying you know I I mean I I can see it I believe it but I can't believe this material was found back then uh and and under those circumstances um this material we did not have the engineering capability it isn't an engineered piece of material it's it's layered uh it was studied by NASA jet propulsion laboratory it's been studied by other organizations as as well um you know and of course that's really the gold standard isn't it when you have material that you can analyze and you can uh look at that material and and succinctly say yeah this material is very special and requires an ex degree amount of technology to manufacture or reproduce and frankly it did not exist at the time the material was found at least not with with us with with with humans so um there seems to be a theme with the spottings and that is nuclear test sites or nuclear sites um and water why yeah so you're right nuclear nuclear technology it's not just nuclear weapons it's nuclear propulsion nuclear technology we've seen them over our National Laboratory Savannah River facility there's some reports that came out Oakridge National Laboratory uh but you know if you think about the Navy right A lot of people are aware of the Navy incidents well what is a nuclear carrier strike group well it is a huge nuclear footprint in some cases probably a bigger nuclear footprint than the entire state of New York because you've got a a nuclear powered carrier you've got other vessels that may be nuclear powered you've got submarines that have nuclear power and other nuclear capabilities potentially um so you've got this this huge nuclear footprint and we also have known the two things that you just said are correct there seems to be a relationship a correlation between uaps and water and and nuclear technology nuclear capabilities we don't know why that is but if you think about it again back to the to the the nuclear Carrier Group strike group it is nuclear it's a huge nuclear footprint where in the middle of the water and so that's why my colleagues and I had put forth A Plan called interloper to try to try to try to get one of these things uh and when I say get one of these things explain what interop is this is fascinating this is fascinating sure yeah um so when I was at the Pentagon my colleagues and I U realized that there was this this interest in our nuclear equities and water and so theide aidea was to create a in essence a Honey Trap be able to create an irresistible Target that we knew uaps would show up to because every time these guys were going out like with the Roosevelt and the nimit they were seeing UAP so we said okay let's work with the inter Agency Group let's talk to other members of the intelligence community and let's create this this this Honeypot where we would put this nuclear carrier strike group in a certain area and then as a UAP show up uh you know we turn on the lights uh we we on all our our sensor data to start collecting information Telemetry and and other stuff on these signatures on these UAP and so everybody liked the idea it went up it got staffed went up to the Joint staff we had a lot of support for it uh and then at the very end it got killed by somebody at a very senior level and there's some speculation why that occurred um a lot of folks believe is because we were getting too close to another UAP effort long running UAP effort that the US government had um going on and it was uh put on ice for a little while and they were they were getting concerned that maybe our group was getting too close to their group um I don't know if that is correct that is just some some suppositions by some of the folks some of the members of our team um I don't know if I personally believe that it may have just been too risky um I you know there's those there's always this concern when you're talking about uaps in the government because it's controversial and I don't think anybody wants to be associated with UAP and the government because it's got kind of that silly factor that woo Factor um so you know there's there's some there's some political issues there that we're also there's also stuff that you talk about in the book like Collins's Elite talk about Collins Elite what is that sure yeah Collins Elite is a group of and I don't want to say fundamentalists um I would rather say probably uh maybe more radical um religious individuals in in the government particularly in in National Security the Pentagon the intelligence community that are very um very staunchly devout religiously and by the way I I'm religious so this is not I'm not I'm not hating on anybody but they had a a moral issue with us pursuing this topic um they believe that it it contradicted their theological belief system that these UAP were in fact demons um they were you know it was if you studied UAP than you were going against the word of God and by the way there are some wait wait wa wait wait wait why why because we can only be were the only intelligent beings in the universe or because they actually believe these were demons yeah no I I can't tell you why they thought what they thought look there's people right now that believe it um that these things are are demonic um I you know my response is look at the end of the day I can't say for sure that they're not I I don't know but I think we should figure it out I don't understand how I I've never seen any anything in the scriptures or anything that says demons need needed Vehicles well you know I think they're going back to scripture of of being deceivers and you know trying to lure us away from from the path you know path of righteousness again I I don't want to get preachy here I I understand there their their perspective and and by the way I don't blame him for it I'm going to be the first one to tell you but what I I do disagree with it I think at a minimum we need to figure out what's going on look Galileo when he first proposed that the Earth was not the center of the solar system look what they did to him right they almost killed him for they even refused to look through the very telescope that he had made to prove his observations so um you know at the end of the day it didn't really at all uh contradict religion at all in fact maybe in some case maybe even reinforced it and and show the grand gear of the universe and so um I had a conversation not too long ago a couple years ago in Italy with a very senior um academic from the Vatican about this topic and he said to me he says look you know it's interesting you say that because at least in the Catholic faith until the 1600s it was heretical to say that there couldn't be life somewhere else because you're putting artificial limitations on on the Dominion of of the notion of God uh and is omnipotent so um you know I I think it's probably more of a modern interpretation that maybe these things uh are are representative of some sort of demonic you know presence um I don't subscribe to that and you know there are some some religious fundamentalists in in the government I don't mean just Christian right there's fundamentalism by any other word is still a fundamentalist but are you are you talking about um because I've never heard of this group are you talking about like a secret society that is coordinated on thwarting things and and how did you even find out about this group sure yeah well we we' faced him before they were trying to shut shut the program down uh we knew who they were I'm not going to say their their names obviously um but I I knew who some of these people were uh and they were very very religious they wore their religion on their sleeve um and everybody knew it and there are there are examples in the Pentagon that you can look back historically of individuals who are are devout and they make decisions um based upon their faith and again I I don't personally necessarily agree with that but I also don't necessarily fault them for it and so the the col lead going back to this secret society I don't want to be uh conspiratorial because I don't know if it's necessarily a formal secret society that's what they're referred to as it could be just a loose affiliation of like-minded individuals uh that um for whatever reason don't like this topic or like to influence National Security decisions or recommendations based upon their faith um I I don't know I I don't know enough about the organization to to say definitively uh but there is a there is a strong alliance with some of those individuals and if something is against their you know their their perspective then they they tend to become very vocal about it um let's go is some of the the weird stuff uh that I think is weirder than this um uh Skinwalker Ranch I'm at my ranch right now and Skinwalker Ranch is not far away um and the people in this area are very fascinated by Skinwalker Ranch because it's Indian lore uh Native American lore and also lore you know stories that have been passed down and Been Told you know around campfires or you know serious you know people talking over a cup of coffee you know in the morning um what is your uh relationship to skin walker and and what can you tell us about it yeah I I don't have a real relationship with Skinwalker when I first came into the program uh there were elements of the of our effort that were very focused on skin walker so tangentially I I would read a report here and there um look there's a lot of weirdness in in this world and and I think part of the problem is that we anything we can't explain we we we say is Paranormal when in reality everything by definition is Paranormal until it becomes normal this cell phone 50 years ago would certainly be considered paranormal um you know it's just something we we don't have an explanation for yet there is weird things in this world um not just UFOs uh you know there's that you're right the the the indigenous people of of of this continent have long reported Skin Walkers and windigos I live here near the near the Crow Nation uh and uh you know if you get them talking candidly they'll they'll tell you there's a deep belief in this and there's people who also report seeing and encountering strange things um you know is it a natural phenomena like ball lightning or or St Elmo's Fire which could be um but maybe it's something else you know we we're always we're always putting limit let me give you a perfect example of this Glenn if I may digress just for a quick second to kind of emphasize my point I went to school to study microbiology and Immunology and um our species there are some scientists that will will propose that our species has been here around in modern form Homo sapiens sapen between 100 and 200,000 years now if that's the case um it was only 2,000 years ago because of the Greeks we recognize there were two types of life form on this planet and you were either a a plant or B an animal and they kind of WRA you is being being you know within the animal kingdom uh and it wasn't until 300 years ago only 300 years ago so if you look at a 24-hour clock and say 200,000 years ago is you know one Z Zer in the morning right uh it's only been roughly the last maybe 40 seconds uh towards midnight that we discovered another form of life that's been on this planet all along and it's neither plant nor is it an animal and that's the world of fungus and so we Pat ourselves on the shoulder and if you look at that 24-hour clock it's only been the last 5 Seconds that we just discovered the true dominant life form on this planet in fact if you take all the biomass of every plant and the biomass of every animal and the biomass of every fungus and add it all up together it still does not add up to the true dominant Alpha life form on this planet that's been hidden all along and in fact it wasn't until we could have the technology to curve glass and look through a little metal tube and famously shout little beasties little beasties did we discover the world of microorganisms and in fact they live inside of you they live on the skin of the ISS space station they live miles underneath the arctic ice and we just discovered them we just now discovered the true dominant life form on this planet um you know we're always learning something new uh about ourselves and about our place and the one thing that we were usually right on is that we're usually wrong at first uh in our assumptions and presumptions and um you know is it possible these things people say well it's impossible because a great distance of outer space these things never could they could never travel you know across the the heavens well is it possible these things are are just as natural to Earth as we are is it possible we're now at a point where technologically we're beginning to interact with them is it possible that from the bottom of the ocean is if I mean all these things are possibilities and so you know I I always try to encourage people we to to keep all options on the table until they until they're no longer on the table can you tell me the difference between um a a wsap and AA tiip yeah depends who you ask and what day of the week um I can tell you with my involvement when I came in the contract was under the oaces of oap think of a big umbrella um there was a smaller effort a yeah a awsp oap and then there was a effort and that included Skinwalker Ranch uh then there was a more focused nuanced effort that was focused primarily on military incursions of UAP and that was my focus that was my interest in that and so some of the folks that were working oap were also part of ATP uh some people will tell you that that atip was a nickname but it also became a very formal name and you can see that in the 2009 memo that Harry Reed wrote to the deputy secretary of defense Lynn where he talks about atip and p and atip means program Advanced Aerospace threat identification program um you can see in other uh documentation that the Pentagon has as well that a tip was a formalized program later on and in fact you had the under secretary of defense for intelligence himself testifying before the American people saying that they reviewed the atip files in the blue tip Blue Book files another another UFO program of a predor to to AA a nap um so it's you know really depends who you ask some folks will tell you that a tip was actually part of oap or others will say no it wasn't um you know I I personally I can give you my perspective but I'm sure there's 100 people out there that will tell you what their perspective is um and you were the director of atip I was the senior ranking person I had my own staff that answered directly to me but it's also important to note Glenn that there are other individuals that I worked with that we were colleagues we were co-workers and they worked in other organizations other agencies they didn't necessarily report to me we work together so I had my own staff at the under secretary of defense for intelligence I was the director of of national program special management staff and in that capacity I ran atip as a director for that those people but then there were other individuals colleagues that I worked with as well that weren't under me necessarily we worked we worked together right can you tell me about how you got recruited for this yeah um so uh I was uh I I was working at the Director of National Intelligence and uh the commute was terrible my uh my wife and kids we decided to raise our kids on a little island in the Chesapeake Bay away from Washington DC just cuz we didn't want them around the hustle and bustle wanted to try to give them some sort of normal life but my commute in some cases was three hours each way right I I it wasn't uncommon if I spent more hours in a car in a day than I did at work uh so the commute was in tenable for me so I was offered a position uh temporary position to come back to the Pentagon for a little while and set up a program for for taking National level intelligence information and defense intelligence information classified information and figure out a way to get it down to to local law enforcement after 9/11 we realized there was a big problem there was all this information at the national level but the cops on the ground who needed that information weren't getting it so one of my job was to work with DHS and DOD and other agencies and figure out a way to get classified information to people who don't necessarily have a security clearance so that's what I was brought there to do and shortly there after I was approached by a couple folks who asked me to come in um they came to my office first we talked a little bit of small talk um they were very vague about uh the job and it wasn't until I met the program director at the time for oap Dr James laty uh by the way the epitome of a rocket scientist I mean the absolute absolute probably one of the world's Premier scientists on on Aerospace and Rockets he's he's far too humble to tell you that himself but he he really was and probably still is so a bit of a National Treasure so I remember having a conversation with him in his office space um the Pentagon when I wrote the book I had it in there and they asked me to redact it so I had to take the location out but um I went to see him in his office and uh he told me quite quite bluntly he just looked at me and said so what do you think about UFOs and so I answered him truthfully I said I don't and he said well what do you mean you do you not believe in UFOs I said no you didn't ask me that you you asked me what do I think of them and the answer is I don't think about them I'm too busy you know chasing bad guys and and trying to get you know do my other job uh and he said okay that's fair but don't let your he gave me a warning and he said don't let your analytic bias ever get the best of you because you may learn things that are going to challenge your your your preconceived notions and your narratives of what of what things are and what things should be and um I found it very peculiar but U you know at the end he was absolutely right Ian was okay um it's uh it was an honor and privilege I had a really good chance to to meet and work with some amazing human beings uh it wasn't always easy I had two terrible portfolio at the Pentagon I was running I had I kind of joke sometimes I had HV high value detainees and I had uh UFOs right the the two worst portfolios one could ever both of them were were you know one of them would have been terrible enough to run in the Pentagon both were just you know probably professional suicide if you know what I mean um yeah but uh you know I I didn't it was uh and look let's let's not forget that now the US government has an official UFO program called Arrow you have legislation uh that has come out Landmark legislation over the last couple years and there's new legislation coming out right so the government's taking this seriously whistleblowers now are are there's legislation to try to protect them Congress is now being informed uh and let's you know let's let's look at the reality here the moment we start you know taking our radar systems and recalibrating them to I don't know maybe look for UFOs what happens we start seeing Chinese spy balloons wafting over Northern continental United States just collecting intelligence and information right meanwhile we been telling everybody oh no there's nothing in the skies we've got everything under control every time there's a new UFO report annual report going to Congress there's more and more and more unresolved issues right talk to the fighter pilots I'll tell you in some cases these UAP have come so close to their to their aircraft they have literally split the com the combat formation right down the middle wow that's an air safety issue right I mean this is this is real this is a problem uh the Pentagon has already said for the record that they can't explain a lot of these things uh some of these things do not have any type of prosaic explanation and they appear to be maneuvering uh in capab in a way uh with capabilities that exceed anything we have in our inventory so I mean that's that's your government telling you that that's not that's not me telling you that they said that for the record most self-defense situations can be handled with a gun but that doesn't mean they all should be handled with a gun I believe wholeheartedly in the Second Amendment I'm a gun owner I carry a gun but I also believe in the power of having options the best alternative is the Burna launcher I have it members of my family have it members of my team have it as well it's a great compliment to our Firearms there are situations where less lethal is the way to go and Burna is the best alternative to deadly force it fires powerful deterrents like tear gas and kinetic rounds this is not you know pepper spray this is something that will incapacitate an attacker for up to 40 minutes government agencies and police departments all over the country rely now on Burna every day as their go-to less lethal option it works for them I think it'll work for you too sometimes you have to choose between life and death but that isn't every situation please just go to burn.com and check them out right now they're made in Fort way Indiana it's Bab byrna.com SL Glenn you'll get a 10% discount it's bna.com Glenn so our government has been involved in in so many things sometimes really good things sometimes really dark things um absolutely we've done horrible things to our fellow fellow man horrible horrible I me look at the syphilis experiments right I mean we let human beings die I mean this is it's it's appalling you know so when people say oh you know we would never do that oh we've done a hell of a lot worse than that you know trust me yeah yeah yeah um but you were in a project uh called project Stargate can you can you talk about project Stargate yeah so let me be very clear Stargate at that point had had supposedly ended what there was with these vestigal pockets of individuals who were part of that program that were trying to revamp to basically bring it back rebirth it yeah rebirth it bring it back um and so Stargate started uh quite some time several decades ago in the late 60s in the early 70s by a gentle named Dr Hal POF Dr Hal POF had worked for various intelligence agencies worked for Stanford University and the CIA was very interested interested in trying to gain a strategic advantage over the Russians we knew that the Russians had what they call a psychic Espionage program we knew that so we wanted to have a psychic ESP program and so Hal P off was one of the guys who created it's true story it you can look it up and it was called operation Stargate and before that it was Grill flame and before that had a bunch of other names um it bounced back and forth between uh CIA Dia inscom uh intelligence security command um and they were recruiting um soldiers to uh who apparently displayed a certain type of level of of gift cognitive gift to spy on the Russians using psychic power now before we kind of say oh that's silly look law enforcement agencies to this day still use psychics and they're recovering people they're finding they're finding dead bodies they're finding people alive um you know I'm not going to say it's not strange but it's effective we know it's effective in fact there's some there's if you look at the history of Stargate you'll see there were some incredible moments where the Fidelity of information what we we couldn't even our best satellites couldn't pinpoint in one case a uh there was a crash Soviet super Sonic aircraft test aircraft that crashed over Africa and we couldn't find it and it took a couple remote viewers and and they were able to locate the uh the aircraft so it it it does work how it works I'm not sure anybody really knows yet um I do not think it's paranormal at all I think it's probably involved in quantum mechanics quantum physics if you talk to a lot of neuros neuroscientists now they'll tell you that they believe human consciousness is actually a Quantum process and if you understand that then it's not such a a big leap to understand the you know what what we refer to as psychic it's really just a it's something that a lot of people do um you know quite often it's funny because it's uh I don't know if you if you know this but there was a program uh in Germany and uh Hitler released some of the gypsies and some others from prisons um that had quote psychic ability and they one of them was a diviner and uh they drew a giant picture of the oceans on the floor and he would Divine where the uh where the subs were where the American Subs were and the enemies and the ships um he turned after a lot of money and a lot of time he turned out to be a complete fraud and went back to the concentration camp and was killed um but uh people have been trying to do this for a long time yeah and they have and so early in my my civilian career uh there was a gentleman uh Jean Lesman a uh incredible guy I go to his whole background in in the book uh and he was in the early stages of the recruitment was was teaching me the these skills I had no idea what it was for I had no idea what he was doing uh and then uh just one day out of L he's like okay um you know it's gone you're going to be uh you're going to be getting this assignment to uh to Latin America and I never heard anything afterwards and it was really strange the whole time actually we were talking I wasn't sure if he was just trying to assess me psychologically maybe am I prone to fights of Flights of Fancy it wasn't until later that I realize that what he was doing was getting me prepared for the next iteration uh or the follow on to Stargate which never happened there was just no funding for it Congress had pulled the funding uh but it's fascinating it's fascinating and you know I'm not going to sit here and tell you I was I was great at it you know there's a lot of people out there that have uh skills far better than that than I I certainly ever did um but it's is interesting to go ahead you talk in the book that you can Re remote view or have yeah and but I think you know look a lot of people do that when for example when you're out of town and maybe friend or your child calls and you're like man you know I was just thinking about you was just about to call you um that is an example of what that connection may be through through maybe perhaps just quantum entanglement you know you you start the human brain gives off brain waves that's how we know somebody's clinically dead or not okay so that's that's there's bio biochemical processes that occur that become bioelectric processes uh we transmit all the time in fact there is recently a YouTube video of a a gentleman who I believe is quadriplegic and they fit this helmet onto him and now he's playing Call of Duty uh simply with his brain right so it we know that's a fact people give off brain waves and it's possible that potentially people can as as we transmit maybe some people are more in tune and can can receive them I don't know how it works I'm I'm I'm certainly not a scientist or am I qualified to even think how works but I would you know someone like Hal pudol would be a great person to talk to because he can tell you everything about that program and what the gaining theories are and why it works and remote viewing though is the idea that you can remotely see things you can go places you could be in the you know the you can see things separated by space and time now that is the definition of it um you know it's there's also compelling information to say that you know people say well as much as it works it also doesn't work and you know that's right you're right there's examples where it it fails miserably so um you know it it was never to be used as a tool as an exclusive means of collecting information it was just there to help hone in I suspect very much like why law enforcement to this day uses people who are quote unquote psychics or whatever um to to help them in in investigations um again that I was not really exposed to it for very long so I'm certainly not an expert in it um I you know saw some things and was was privy to some things but there's organizations and people out there that could probably give you a much better comprehensive understanding of of of how it works and and if we're still using it and whatnot tell tell the audience what you say about when you were briefed in the skiff um from from the your your main scientist on how they think uaps work with uh I think you call them warp bubbles yeah and actually that wasn't my my my term um the US government so let's let's kind of backtrack here just a little bit let's rewind um one of the arguments is that the VA the vastness of space is so great uh and that we cannot break the the universal speed limit of the speed of light that it would take centuries of not Millennia for a life form to get here it's just the the the vastness of space is too big um there are some theories that kind of shortcut that because we know we can't go faster than the speed of light but if you look at the theories of what they call an alary Drive um you can compress and stretch SpaceTime to a degree that allows you to go travel faster than light without actually having to break the speed of light speed limit now I know it sounds kind of strange but it if you look at how this Theory works it makes sense in essence you create a bubble around yourself uh and you can compress SpaceTime in front of you while SpaceTime is being in essence elongated behind you and so you move within this bubble what is spacetime um because people will say well you're kind of hurting my head here Lou what do you mean SpaceTime is flexible there were three types of physics uh models U the first was Newtonian physics really during the Renaissance it was Newton who really understood the relationship uh and the observation of physical matter in a physical world right Force equals mass time acceleration I put enough energy into this and it's going to go this direction it's going to stay in that direction till it's interfered by an outside force Etc then along comes uh Einstein who proposes that space and time the very fabric of space time is connected we look at this empty space and so there there's nothing here and there but but if you can imagine that the very volume of space that that you let's say draw a Magic Cube and say okay here's space it's flexible and and a lot of people say well I don't understand well we've observed it we know that's a fact because right now the Earth is warping SpaceTime and in fact what we call gravity which is that that's not really gravity that's an effect of gravity what this is is simply the warping of SpaceTime and so uh the objects come together if you could the scientist at at at atip came forward and said look um for all these years we've been trying to find the different exotic technologies that can explain the peculiar performance characteristics of UAP in essence how do UAP fly right and what are all the technology you would Technologies you would need to do it it was in 2015 where they had this revelatory moment where they realized the five fundamental observables of UAP which were Hypersonic velocity instantaneous acceleration low observability transm medium travel and in the vernacular anti-gravity um we're all possible if you could do one thing and I just want to emphasize this wasn't my theory this were the theories but posited by our our our scientists right and they said basically if you could insulate create a bubble around you in a localized area that insulated yourself from the effects of SpaceTime then the way people would perceive you inside that bubble would be different than the way you perceive SpaceTime meaning for example if you were to eliminate all the effects of of Earth gravity and SpaceTime around you and you could manipulate SpaceTime in a localized area what for you is just a walk in the park maybe taking a stroll down the road to me I would see you going in in a in a in super fat speed so I'm gonna let me give you an example here Glenn I'm not an artist but let me see if I can make this little easy here so um you're playing one on the podcast yeah I'm gonna pretend to be an artist and I'm down to while you're doing that I've always understood SpaceTime as more of a map uh of of where you are uh and you know it's a map oh that's what you're drawing yeah so in essence what you have this is a two-dimensional representation of SpaceTime you have points A and B and let's say I fly from LA to Baltimore and it takes me 5 hours and 2,000 miles to do it and that's usually expressed as a function of distance over time right and you can express that linearly but if you had the ability to compress SpaceTime a little bit in front of you all of a sudden now your distance between A and B is is shorten significantly right correct and it's kind of like a an Einstein Wormhole isn't it yeah it's really the same principle of a black hole so a black hole is nothing more than extreme Earth or an extreme Sun where the gravity is is is so great that it literally rips a hole in SpaceTime itself um every everything that has mass and volume has gravity of some sort and warps distorts space time and so correct the scientist said hey look um if you could create this bubble then you would be able to do things that seem like magic to the outside those of us watching it but in reality it's it's just Advanced physics and it's uh so it's a rather lengthy um mathematical formula but folks like Hal P off and others were the on who came up with the theory and it was kind of this unifying theory for the first time that the government had that explained okay well maybe this is how they're working and in fact may even explain the shapes and the morphology of UFOs from small ticular you know think of a sports car maybe whole three or four people you need something bigger well you could put two discs together but really end to end but that's more of a cigar shape right so okay you got got two bubbles now and then if I want something really big I could go out 90 degrees uh put another bubble maker here and that's your triangle the larger triangle Craft um so it was a very interesting Theory and um the scientists came up with that and it you know made a lot of sense to to the other scientists do you think that's where we're at now is that what we think it is I mean not saying that it's right but is that where we are or is that where we were when you were no that's well that's that's that's where we were and I I'm I'm fairly confident that that theory that well it's more hypothesis I guess uh is is is still accurate um but those are the you you would need to act talk to the scientists about that people like how P off can can give you the specifics yes that is the gaining Theory but there may be other theories as well and like I said in the beginning all options have to be on the table until they're no longer on the table I think this is at the end of the day it's just about fact finding and and looking at the observations look at the performance capabilities and try to see what type of physics is required to to explain it did did you see the theory on the missing um uh Malaysia airliner where it was have you seen that I I've seen it and you know I'm always very careful for meglan because recently so look I'm I'm a science guy right always just F follow the signs recently about three weeks ago Google someone on Wikipedia decided to label me as a quote unquote conspiracy theorist I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all that's just someone home to to to minimize you know this this topic and kind of chip away with the narrative um I'm very careful to be to be open-minded about everything um I know that the Malaysia airline there were some people that were claiming there was maybe some UAP involvement I don't know I did not I did not pursue it um I know some of the people that I've talked to were dead dead dead dead for it and dead against it something it's a complete nonsense it's fake others said no that looks you know legit and I could not tell you l have no idea I I I am not a I do not go down the the conspiracy Rabbit Hole um very often simply because I I'm trying to remain open-minded towards everything if I can so when you left um why did you resign and and then decide to talk to the New York Times and is that when the trouble started with the government were they oh yeah yeah um why did you resign W so uh for years we were having these issues with UAP coming up close and personal to our our military equities to to the point where I remember an email uh from someone out in the fleet saying hey man we're we basically we can't keep people below deck forever these things are all over the ship what do you want us to do and time and time again yeah the calvary's coming we're trying to get you know senior leadership involved we we'll get you an answer and so I kep briefing senior leadership uh at the time my chain of command did not have a permanent usdi uh that is a senate approved Senate confirmed position um and so the leadership at very senior levels did not want to tell Mattis um Jim Mattis about this topic uh they wanted to wait till we had a permanent usdi had the chain of command work and then inform the boss and see if we could give a some sort of answer to the questions that they knew he was going to ask right um I had a chance to work with with Jim Mattis back in Afghanistan he's an incredible human being he's one of five people that if you he called me at 4 in the morning right now and said put your boots on and need you to go to war I would do it uh he's an incredible human being and if you know Jim Mattis he's a man who wants more information not less so uh we were briefing his seniors um there was also an individual in my chain of command that was not necessarily in my mind very trustworthy there were two open IG investigations against the individual so I could not brief him so I I was I had to go around that individual and uh there's actually a story if you want to know what actually happened it's called it was done I think either by Popular Mechanics or the debrief it's called Sex Lies and UFOs but in there you can see what actually happened to me so um when I decided to leave the Pentagon I wrote a resignation letter that I knew they would not be able to stop they would not be able to legally keep it from the secretary defense if I address it to the secretary defense um so so I did and uh that's when my trouble started um I uh I think it was about a day later I was asked by Chris melon and a few others to have a meeting in Crystal City where I met somebody that turned out to be somebody from the New York Times and uh I was terrified and they said hey look you know we know about the program we'd like to talk to you about it um they were going to write a story anyways and um you know you at that point you have to make a decision do you do you tell them your story and let them you know create their own narrative or do give them your perspective so at least it's fair so I uh I told them what I could without getting into anything classified um and then later Senator Harry Reid uh confirmed it confirmed the program U and I think that's really what pushed it over the edge for New York Times to say holy crap this is real I mean the senator himself is is admitting it uh and that's when my trouble started because my chain of command got very upset with me for for breaking Rank and um it was uh it was very very diff it's still very difficult because there's still elements of that resistance in the Pentagon that will continue to lie about what ATP was about what we did who we were to the point where the my good sen my friend good friend the senator had to actually write a memo uh he wrote it to a journalist and I didn't even know about it till after it was released stating what for the record what my role was right uh and there's there's ample documentation that that substantiates what we were doing what our Focus was and and who I was and there's this continued effort to to try to to feed misinformation to the American people and I got to tell you Glen for me UAP aside UFOs aside that is not what motivates me what motivates me to have this conversation is three things transparency accountability and anti-corruption and you know when it comes to the government I I took an oath many years ago to defend this country from all enemies foreign and domestic and it turned out that the bureaucracy was part of the enemy um and uh you know I I left the department strangely enough out of loyalty not disloyalty I'm actually just finishing the job they gave me in the first place that's that's all I'm doing and raising the alarm bells and making sure Congress is informed because somewhere at some time someone in government someone in government decided to someone made the decision to not tell Congress and not tell the chain of command and we live in a democracy and the moment you start doing that you start start what what what I consider as a corrupt act where you start making decision against your own um sense of of of your own moral compass right that you now have a corrupt Behavior you're doing something that is corrupt for the benefit of you're trading something a value your values for something else in exchange it's a very slippery slope you know from democracy to tyranny that's this is this is not the way works yeah you have to have accountability and if it is your job it's we forget this is a government for the people and by the people and and if you've forgotten that you need to get out of government that that you are a servant of the American people and if you are if you are not prepared to to do what is necessary in in to satisfy that oath then you got to get the hell out and this is not just with UFOs there's time and time again we see people making unilateral decisions look you can only classify information for two reasons protect sources and protect methods you're not allowed to classify information to save embarrassment to the government you're not allowed to save make things classified because mouth feas and yes that is exactly what's happening people are abusing the system and they're making decisions on behalf of members of Congress and the executive branch by themselves in a vacuum in a void and I think look if that's the way it's going to be then fine but then let the rest of the American people know because you know we know how to deal with that we've done it before we we'll deal with it again um be straight with the American people but don't lie don't offis don't say you know this isn't true when you know it is true and the documentation is there because all you do is you destroy the credibility of the entire system of the entire apparatus and that erodes the very the very core of what democracy means and this is my this is what drives me every day to do what I do UFO's aside yeah we're on the same page that's the same thing that drives me uh for most of my job um Lou always great to talk to you thank you enjoyable book uh I still don't know what to think but thanks for being out there appreciate it that's that's right Glenn I appreciate it and you know there's a there's you ever want to talk to some other folks let me know if your audience is interested um yeah my book is my P you know it's my perspective and it got approv it took about a year but it went through the security process and it got approved by the Pentagon um so hopefully anybody else who wants to come out and be a whistleblower and have a conversation doesn't have to start from scratch anymore right they can look what Happ to there's other whistleblowers I would love to hear from them love to hear from them you talk to a guy named Dave gr he's a good guy but D he testified before the American people about the topic and he is legit 100% I worked with a guy U he is who he says he is uh interesting guy but anyways my honor and privilege uh Glenn as always thank you so much enjoy your wonderful Ranch uh I'm in Wyoming right now where where I live so kind of neighbors we are so anyways thank you very much for all that you do thank take care God bless you back you too God